Ardbert's Party vs the Scions Analysis

[MilkieTea]

Yeah, this is silly, when I've taken it upon myself multiple times to try to rerail the thread after Aveyond HIMSELF derailed it by veering into "streamers get harassed, therefore something-something I'm right about the Scions needing to be replaced".

Like, you guys all came in here to try to bail him out to complain and make claims about streamers, when that still has NOTHING to do with his topic, and in no way validates the topic's claim.

I'm still waiting on the growing evidence that players who dislike the Scions are the majority. I even provided many examples of where that evidence could come from.

[Darthgummibear]

If you had said this when I started playing last year, I'm don't think I would have agreed. EW however, seems to have neutered the gravitas of pretty much every major character on the good guy team except the lalafels. SHB saw decent character development for just about all of them, and EW through it out the window. I loved the expansion, but I'm concerned for the characters' future.

[Graeham]

We are very very sorry for the lackluster story writer guild mistake with the content createmen. We all make the sorry.

We love the Garlemalding and the King Solus and the No Shadow Gods. The Final Fantasy will not let us pick the Garlemald but I am the Garlemald spy in the rp. Sus is the middle name for the Garlemalding spy but is not able to write in the middle name. I know many of the player like to cheer the hero and make fun of the enemy. It is hard to fight against the story and do opposite of all other player. You love Scion we hate Scion. You love Venar we hate Venar. You love Loprit we hate Loprit. You hate God King Varis we love God King Varis. You hate to live the Rala land we love to live the Rala land.

We want the Scion to be replace by the Garlemald and the Ascian and the traditional masculine Jack Garlemald from Stranger Knight. Is why the forum tread is need. You do not agree and we are the oppressed. So we make the daily tread to fix the mind like the pop up advertise do until all can see the right way.

But now realize is bad to make the comment about the content createmen behind the back when is they not here in tread to say the truth. Is better to let the createmen say what they is feeling is and not put the lie words into the mouth to speak for them. Is not good to write the angry letter to all the create men for make the many laugh at the literature critic tread from the youtube. Is not meaning to do the defame and we all are very sorry. We cringe at past but is only one way to fix timeline now.

The secret Ascian man are the God but is also the Human. We can make the mistake. It like when the Madge King of All Amigos break all of the Yoshi statue and temple to get the desperate attention from the Yoshi God only to realize he had break his own statue into salty lake. It is the hubri drama irony. We can improve. We can make the better. To show you better way to think of the story we must be the better.

Like the King Solus say Our ideal is in violet. Indivisible. You will know truth in the patch 62 when new cast team is made.

[Ghost_of_Ebina]

I am still hoping to see Krile Baldesion fight in battles. Her small role in battle we saw in the tower of Zot was too small.

[aveyond-dreams]

Since the ones making claims about which opinion is the majority were those who claim the majority of players like the scions, it is their responsibility to prove it. If their only source is the popularity poll in which Emet and Hythlodaeus secured a significant portion of the vote, that may not be the best evidence they should be using. The highest ranking scion only got 5.8% of the vote as opposed to Emet's 17.2%. Even if we assume that every other scion ranks the exact same, that's 40.6% of the vote. That therefore tells me that a minority of the playerbase loves the scions. (The actual combined results for the scions was 23%, not even 6% more than Emet alone.) It is also important to consider that the scions are not merely individuals, they are a group. Just because a scion is liked by some people doesn't mean the rest are liked by those same people. Just because some scions are fairly liked individually, doesn't mean people necessarily enjoy them as a team.

We don't know how many people who voted for the highest ranking scion thought to themselves, "I love this character, but I don't feel much attachment to the rest. In fact I was wishing we could get some time off from the scions for a bit." We don't know how many did that for each of them, just as much as we don't know how many view the scions highly favourably and were struggling to pick a favorite out of them. We don't know how many people love a character but would prefer if they bowed out for the next expansion to get some new blood in the team. We don't know any of that. So, again, if people are going to claim that the scions are widely liked as a group, and that most people want all of them to stick around, the burden of proof is on them to justify this position.

What is known is that nearly 1/5 of the poll's sample (at the time of the poll) prefers at least one of the villains to the rest of the cast that regularly consumes the most screentime. Nearly 1/5 of the sample decided that a villain is more interesting than any given good guy in the story. What we can assume from this is that almost 1/5 of the playerbase sees something in Emet's writing and/or design that cannot be found in the main cast. That's a large number. I will not claim that the majority of the playerbase likes the villains more than the heroes but the percentages behind Emet and Hythlodaeus would be much stronger support for that case than the 6% for the highest ranking scion.

[CrownySuccubus]

Since the ones making claims about which opinion is the majority were those who claim the majority of players like the scions, it is their responsibility to prove it.

No. You're the one making claims that the people who DON'T like the Scions are a majority. You cannot shift the burden of proof.

The highest ranking scion only got 5.8% of the vote as opposed to Emet's 17.2%. Even if we assume that every other scion ranks the exact same, that's 40.6% of the vote. That therefore tells me that a minority of the playerbase loves the scions. (The actual combined results for the scions was 23%, not even 6% more than Emet alone.)

We don't know how many people who voted for the highest ranking scion thought to themselves, "I love this character, but I don't feel much attachment to the rest. In fact I was wishing we could get some time off from the scions for a bit." We don't know how many did that for each of them, just as much as we don't know how many view the scions highly favourably and were struggling to pick a favorite out of them. We don't know how many people love a character but would prefer if they bowed out for the next expansion to get some new blood in the team. We don't know any of that.

What is known is that nearly 1/5 of the poll's sample (at the time of the poll) prefers at least one of the villains to the rest of the cast that regularly consumes the most screentime. Nearly 1/5 of the sample decided that a villain is more interesting than any given good guy in the story. What we can assume from this is that almost 1/5 of the playerbase sees something in Emet's writing and/or design that cannot be found in the main cast. That's a large number. I will not claim that the majority of the playerbase likes the villains more than the heroes but the percentages behind Emet and Hythlodaeus would be much stronger support for that case than the 6% for the highest ranking scion.

You just defeated your own argument.

Because we also don't know how many of the people who voted like both the Scions AND Emet Selch, while your argument tries to present these two positions as mutually-exclusive. If I had to vote for my favorite character, Emet-Selch would easily get my vote, followed by Sadu Heavensflame, and then Yotsuyu. However, that does not mean that I dislike the Scions, am adverse to being on more adventures with them, or want my favorite characters to replace them out of spite.

Two of my favorite characters are villains and dead, and I would actually prefer that they stay that way (hell, I even dislike how Emet's presence was milked for fanservice in END, even though it was indeed nice to see him again). The third one I definitely wouldn't mind seeing more of, but not at the expense of cutting out even my least favorite Scion, and I'd be worried that too much exposure would sour my opinion of her.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Gotta love misrepresented data to make it look like it suits his arguement, over what the data actually means.

[Rulakir]

I find it amusing that Hythlodaeus ranked #2 with 13.1% of the vote, so he and Emet combined are more than all the Scions. Not to mention we knew 'real' Hyth for about 3 hours and he instantly shot up to second favorite character. Even ignoring whatever the Scions' popularity is, I'd say that shows player interest in new characters especially if they're well written.

I also have to disagree about Krile. They've basically made her Mini-filia, which is going to be her death knell (figuratively since any Scion who lived past HW can never die :P). Minfilia was an actually unpopular character that not even the devs dispute.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I find it amusing that Hythlodaeus ranked #2 with 13.1% of the vote, so he and Emet combined are more than all the Scions. Not to mention we knew 'real' Hyth for about 3 hours and he instantly shot up to second favorite character. Even ignoring whatever the Scions' popularity is, I'd say that shows player interest in new characters especially if they're well written.

I also have to disagree about Krile. They've basically made her Mini-filia, which is going to be her death knell (figuratively since any Scion who lived past HW can never die :P). Minfilia was an actually unpopular character that not even the devs dispute.

Wow, new entertaining characters rank highly in popularity poll. More at 11.


No one is surprised.

[CrownySuccubus]

Wow, new entertaining characters rank highly in popularity poll. More at 11.


No one is surprised.

Just to steelman, their argument is that since these characters ranked so high, that must prove that A) said popularity would work for identical characters outside of their isolated roles and work just as well "in the wild" as it were, as main characters and B) said popularity proves that the Scions are substandard.

But, as stated before, the rankings prove neither of those things.