Thread: Summoner changes that should happen onto 7.0

Current summoner is a garbled mess visually, thematically and rotationally. It's only fitting that you cast your strongest attack to build the weaker ones. Clearly they spent too much time on Sage Reaper Bard Samurai Monk? and had none left over to take summoner beyond the first draft. Or the resources needed to turn the dot and pet class into a joke job were more than anticipated.

Come 7.0 what it needs is:
1) Aetherflow turned into something meaningful. Doesn't matter what it is or if it's fully replaced with something else to be managed, but the job lacks any resource management to speak of.
2) Either the complete removal of the pet/carbuncle or returning it to something that matters. As it stands all it retains are the downsides from before.
3) Rotational flexibility. Choosing which order you eat your crayon in is not really flexibility.
4) More than 2-3 casts/minute. Is it a caster or a physical ranged? Choose.
5) The rotation to build to something. As mentioned, it feels entirely backwards to build/unlock your filler/crayons/lesser summons from your harder hits. This could be coupled with fixing aetherflow or otherwise. As seen every other time summoner is implimented in a game with more than a rudimentary combat system, "traditional summoner" offers little-to-no depth.
6) More tying it to scholar. Lean into both jobs evolving from arcanist or remove it entirely. Trying to separate them, particularly at this late juncture is futile at best.
7) lv99 or 100 to be the highest attainable level, with development in further expansions coming from cross-class skills (not necessarily implimented as before) or other systems. Summoner's leveling rotation is comically barren, this is an issue that will only be exacerbated by a constantly growing level cap, particularly with SE's current job design philosophy.

My take is that Smn base design is fine now even instant bahamut, just it's execution suck because of how streamlined it is.
Like just double the number of rite on each primal and adjust potency so that primal like Ifrit that actually got sauce are the highest potency and bam you may have to actually make more meaningfull choice now.

Also 7 month later i still dont unsertand why they made bahamut and phoenix so freaking samy when they felt distinct before.

I could find one hundred idea to make them feel distinct (and still fucking brainded if it's what is needed) but no make them the same like????

1) make its dps on paar with the melee, like it used to be
2)... chamge anything else, and it will make some cry and others rejoice.. the only constant every smn wants is a dps bump

Originally Posted by Shiroe

1) make its dps on paar with the melee, like it used to be
2)... chamge anything else, and it will make some cry and others rejoice.. the only constant every smn wants is a dps bump

SMN cannot do the same damage as BLM as simple as it is and with a raise, old SMN was garbage but it did good damage because it was complex

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SMN cannot do the same damage as BLM as simple as it is and with a raise, old SMN was garbage but it did good damage because it was complex

Job complexity shouldn’t factor into DPS. I do agree with utility, that being said, the movement penalty needs to be eliminated.

I’m fine with SMN being the mid utility mid DPS job.

I do wish our rez, would either be turned into an instant cast skill on a cooldown, or removed entirely. It feels clunky when compared to red mage, and is part of the reason that summoner feels like a worse red mage this expansion.

Verraise feels really good on red mage because of dual cast. You can honestly get half the party up in a matter of seconds.

Originally Posted by Sequora

Job complexity shouldn’t factor into DPS. I do agree with utility, that being said, the movement penalty needs to be eliminated.

I’m fine with SMN being the mid utility mid DPS job.

I do wish our rez, would either be turned into an instant cast skill on a cooldown, or removed entirely. It feels clunky when compared to red mage, and is part of the reason that summoner feels like a worse red mage this expansion.

Verraise feels really good on red mage because of dual cast. You can honestly get half the party up in a matter of seconds.

An instant cast skill, like Swiftcast? If you want to be a good rez mage, save that ability for that. Don't blow it on anything else. They've talked about getting rid of it, but I'd rather keep the spell. I'd rather play SMN and have that option than be forced to play RDM to support my team.

A change that should definitely happen is the complete separation of summoner and scholar altogether. With the new changes, SMN's playstyle and flow is just dead weight and dragging down SCH's kit. They play differently from eachother.

For that matter, rename Arcanist to Invoker or some such that plays into the leading up to becoming summoner.
And Scholar's version of Arcanist can be something else as well or retain the name. But they are nowhere near the similarities they were in SB or SHB. It's time for them separate.

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SMN cannot do the same damage as BLM as simple as it is and with a raise, old SMN was garbage but it did good damage because it was complex

Smn should do more damage in aoe and / or heavy movement scenarios, like ot used to in ARR, HW and parts of Stb & Shb..

( making Blm actually needing proc luck to keep up with heavy movement dps, otherwise falls i tick shorter than Smn in those scenarios.., otherwise blm just does overkill damage with many procs)

Smn & Mnk should be equal, both overall under Blm & Sam, but in certain situations,ike mentioned aoe (sustained or burst?) or / and specific movement mechanics (also since Sam occasionally needs to "hard cast"), Sm & Mnk should be able to keep up.with Bkm & Sam, if not occasionally slightly outshine

.... it shouldn't be "Blm & Sam are top in all scenarios".., there should be some scenarios, where Smn or Mnk can actually come out on top too.., like it used to be

(not mentioning Drg, Nin & Rdm, since they have always had the best dps buffs, physical dps aside.., so they were seldomly top, but are often the "most wanted" dps in raids / comps.., snd still, there have been fights, where they could come out on top, depending on the movement, aoe & mechanics set up. ..but atm wanted to talk about Smn (and its supposed "dps rivals"...)

yes Smn can rez, could always rez, but:
A) SC was always a part of its main rota
B) now more than ever, has rezing become taxing on Smn's mp.., so after one SC rez , if SC is up at all, Smn can't reallt do another rez (its own skill suck mp harder than usual, like during ARR & HW times (but dunno how Rdm's mp consumption is atm,xan only say, Smn's is high)

TLTR:

Smn & Mkn shoukd be like equals, both under Blm & Sam overall dps but not on all occasions (like it used to be in many parts of the game / expansions.., instead if giving Blm & Sam a free card to be top dos everywhere / all the time ... aka making Smn low dps all the time

Why not make Resurrection an Instant Cast oGCD Role Action with 8 seconds recast? This way no caster is better in this regard and there will be no DPS loss. One can argue that a BLM should not be able to resurrect. I can argue why put Sleep - a traditional black magic in caster's role action, a SMN shouldn't be able to cast Sleep.