Two Suggested Ninjutsu Changes for NIN

[aloneatsea]

Largely in agreement with butchersblock -- while frankly I love the idea of having more options/reasonable combinations to use mudras on rather than just double Raiton every Trick window, the Hyoton solution feels ill-advised. Red Mage already has an issue with being an insta-lock in terms of aggressive prog parties; adding a melee job which can res twice a minute for free (at the cost of damage, sure, but in prog who cares?) is not only going to massively impact Ninja's power budget, but also just feels... out of nowhere, and kind of unfair to other melee jobs? Being able to res is a big deal.

That said, I'd actually put the DOT on Hyoton, instead. The DOT itself could be some sort of frostbite thing or whatever for thematics; the upgrade to Hyosho Ranryu would just be receiving all of that damage at once, instead of over time. The total potency of the attack + DOT should be slightly higher than a Raiton + Raiju, but not by much. Enough to make it worth using within Trick, if you can snapshot the DOT, but not outside of it (i.e. if you're forced to Raiton outside of Trick for a disconnect). I really love the idea of Ninja having a DOT again -- it's an extra little thing to optimise around in fights with downtime/fights you know your killtime in.

Why on Hyoton? Well, there is a conceivable situation in which Fuma is a damage gain. If the boss will die/disappear for more than 20s of downtime, and you don't have enough time to cast Raiton before it vanishes, if you have enough time to use Fuma, it's a gain there. It's the most edge case of edge cases, but it theoretically exists. There's absolutely 0 situations in which using Hyoton is a gain.

That said, adding it Fuma has its benefits too. I doubt it would affect much, but the shorter cast time for Fuma vs Raiton mid-Trick might mean you could gain a GCD in Trick with a very late weave? Unsure of the math there. It's a possibility, in any case.

The problem with adding utility to Ninja's mudras, I think, is that utility that comes at a DPS cost is rarely worth it, especially for a class for whom outputting damage is the goal. I'd rather we have utility we can use for free, like RDM's Magick Barrier, with the only restriction being a solid cooldown.

[xAFROx]

I miss when mudra were oGCD. I'm so hard wired to pressing them between my combos, I always have to remember to not do that and I end up getting the bunny more often than not because of the slow gcd

[AnotherPerson]

They could technically move Fuma into a permanent trait upgrade in Throwing Knives, but adjust Throwing Knives as a charge-based system instead like PvP's Fuma Shuriken.
That frees up 3 more slots for Ten, Chi, jin -- for more unique combinations that doesn't directly compete with Raiton or Katon for DPS after reaching Lv 45. This could also create an alternative rotation on the 3 slots work to start a new synergetic combo or a more free-flowing rotation that Raijus cannot offer without 2 additional hotkeys. Just food for thought.

[Raikai]

I also always had pictured how cool the idea of Fuma being a bleed dot. The action animation is so cool to be only seen once ever 120s with TCJ,

Shadow Fang used to be Ninja's dot... but it was a thoughtless action because how rigid the usage was... like just remember to add it to TA, that's it - even the cooldown aligned perfectly with it. The big part of a DoT gameplay is gauging your ability to 'babysit' the dot, not refreshing it too soon nor let it drop.

[Duskane]

could just replace throwing knife with fuma shuriken
then ninja gets a new mudra which just makes enemy take more ninjutsu damage for 60 seconds and its just a kunai with a debuff seal on it.

[NobleWinter]

The mudras are in a weird spot. Huton seems unnecessary now with Hurajin and Armor Crush both offering ways to start and extend our speed buff. Fuma Shuriken is used for only five levels from 30 to 35 until we learn Ten Chi Jen at 70. Hyoton is never touched unless you're bored following your sprout friend around in ARR. I really think they all need adjustment. Fuma Shuriken needs twice the range to warrant existing in the same world as Raiton. Huton should offer a lesser variant of Peleton if I had to guess. Let it be something used exclusively out of combat that offers a speed boost to everyone within 6 yalms. I would make Hyoton a skill for self or party members that created a barrier like Shade Shift. It would be rare to need it but definitely be more useful than the pointless tragedy Hyoton is now.

[butchersblock]

The mudras are in a weird spot. Huton seems unnecessary now with Hurajin and Armor Crush both offering ways to start and extend our speed buff. Fuma Shuriken is used for only five levels from 30 to 35 until we learn Ten Chi Jen at 70. Hyoton is never touched unless you're bored following your sprout friend around in ARR. I really think they all need adjustment. Fuma Shuriken needs twice the range to warrant existing in the same world as Raiton. Huton should offer a lesser variant of Peleton if I had to guess. Let it be something used exclusively out of combat that offers a speed boost to everyone within 6 yalms. I would make Hyoton a skill for self or party members that created a barrier like Shade Shift. It would be rare to need it but definitely be more useful than the pointless tragedy Hyoton is now.

Huraijin is almost entirely useless, and Huton is the way to regain it back the huge majority of times. I'd rather not see that gone. If anything should go, it's Huraijin.
As for Hyoton - it being a barrier wouldn't net it much more usage that right now, unless the shield was ridiculous.

[RyuuZero]

I do not think that Fuma Shuriken needs to change, it's the only physical Ninjutsu, even if it's not really used it's still an option.

My Idea for a Change for Hyoton would be to make Hyosho Ranryu available with Kassatsu, thus muscle memory doesn't fuck you hard below lvl76, maybe just give Hyosho Ranryu a Damage Boost on lvl76.

would it be bad if Huraijin becomes Kamaitachi? I have the feeling that Kamaitachi feels kinda tagged on+ It doesn't interact with Bunshin anyway. but a Huraijin on Range would be cool in my opinion.

[Ilyn]

I think a DoT on fuma would be a good idea only if it was an added effect inside the ability Ten Chi Jin as to not disrupt the core gamplay . This way you can get an extra benefit for every single target ninjitsu .... Fuma a Dot, Raiton a Raiju stack and Suiton for Meisui /Enhanced Meisui buff .. It would legitimize it's risk/reward nature of the ability.

[T-Owl]

Huraijin is almost entirely useless, and Huton is the way to regain it back the huge majority of times. I'd rather not see that gone. If anything should go, it's Huraijin.
As for Hyoton - it being a barrier wouldn't net it much more usage that right now, unless the shield was ridiculous.

Isn't Huraijin predominantly a recovery tool to gain back Huton when you died without wasting a Mudra charge?