How to fix housing in 2 steps

[Sairys]

Full stop.


Yes, apartments are housing. The moment you claim otherwise you've lost the debate.

What you should be doing is talking about why an apartment is not the housing you want.

Are they smaller with lower item limits? Yes.

Can you still place interior furnishings? Yes. There are approximately 890 different indoor furnishings to choose from versus 212 outdoor furnishings. That means you still have choice from 80% of all furnishings.

Do you get access to a Chocobo Stable? Yes.

Do you get access to a teleport to your apartment. Yes.

Do you get access to a Delivery Moogle/Mailbox? Yes.

Do you get access to general gardening? Yes.

Do you get access to intercross gardening? No.

This is a really good list showing how they're not the same as houses which furthers that point that they're not houses, it doesn't particularly matter if some of those differences are, slim, benefits.

• You have to get a free aetheryte, stable, and mailbox because they're missing features of the housing system that would let you access them.
• Given they're not mutually exclusive, those that have houses have all the benefits of apartments as well. While you'd still want an aetheryte, house owners can also skip stables and mailboxes then just use their apartment ones.
• You get most of the furnishing options yes, but you don't get all of them. Outdoor includes rewards, rare drops, convenient striking dummies, etc.
• Given one of the arguments for wards is the "neighbourhood" feeling, outdoor furnishings are better at showing off and a well done yard can encourage people to take a look inside where you can show off even more.
• Participation rates on outdoor gardening also don't really matter, it's a system you get locked out of and don't have a choice about. It also makes sense for it to be low priority to address the issues with it given so few people can access it

Relying on the definition of housing is a matter of semantics and ambiguity, that definition is for the real world and we're talking about systems in a game. The systems are similar yes, but apartments have much more in common with FC rooms to the point that they're not particularly meaningfully distinct depending on your permissions and what your fc has bought.

[Jojoya]

You are not only asking them to copy other game's system and you are also asking them to invest physical hardwares into something only minimal players will actively using.

You don't know how much hardware is actually required nor how much a new system would get used (especially considering how many players would then have access to something they currently don't have).


By your definition, the current system is even less than optimal. Look at all that wasted server memory for the sake of a single player who happens to be standing alone in a ward compared to optimal use of that memory for instanced housing.

Let me further explain on how your idea will not work.
Beside investment of hardware resources, you are also pretty much asking the devs to spend development resources into creating a new system on top or original system (only drawback by supply unable to meet demmand)

They don't need to create a completely new system from scratch. They can copy existing systems for a starting template and improve on those.

Hrothgars almost turned into forum terrorist during their persuade of Hrothgar refinement and female Hrothgar

Not certain how the activities of a very tiny group of forum posters relates to developers working on improvements to housing system. I doubt that the team responsible for player character model customization also handles housing.

PvP side, in which is now quite big chuck of playerbases also demanding further refinement of currentPvP system

The developers working on PvP are most definitely not the developers working on housing.

Playerbase also want a better report system for TOS abuse and harassments, urgently.

Now this might actually a connection with housing as I imagine the UI team probably multi-tasks across different areas of the game. But then again depending on which route SE might choose for housing improvements, need for assistance from the UI team could be minimal if needed at all.

Majority of players want better gear design

The developers working on gear are not the developers working on housing.

Why would them want to recreate/copy a system from scratch?

Why have the remade anything in the game? Because enough players were not happy with the existing version and requested improvements. Most jobs in the game play nothing like they did back in 2.0. Most of what's left is ability names.

Why should housing be the only thing in the game they're not allowed to update when there is such a demand for housing? Because it will infringe on the prestige you assume you have as a house owner?

Relying on the definition of housing is a matter of semantics and ambiguity, that definition is for the real world and we're talking about systems in a game. The systems are similar yes, but apartments have much more in common with FC rooms to the point that they're not particularly meaningfully distinct depending on your permissions and what your fc has bought.

And both FC rooms and apartments are included in the housing system of this game. You can't sit there screaming "they're not housing" when they are. It's not the lack of a feature that creates most of the difference between a house and an apartment, it's the quantity of the feature.

You're like a child screaming "that's not an ice cream sundae because it only has one scoop of ice cream and is missing the cherry on the top". As long as it's got the ice cream and some sort of toppings that include a sauce, it's an ice cream sundae. Apartments are still housing because they have the base qualities of housing (a place reserved for the player that the player can customize to create a home for their character).

Trying to redefine the word to suit your goals isn't going to get you anywhere.

Again, you should be describing what you want from housing, how a house provides that something and how an apartment does not instead of stamping your verbal feet going "apartments aren't housing!"

[Siniztor]

This is a really good list showing how they're not the same as houses which furthers that point that they're not houses, it doesn't particularly matter if some of those differences are, slim, benefits.

• You have to get a free aetheryte, stable, and mailbox because they're missing features of the housing system that would let you access them.
• Given they're not mutually exclusive, those that have houses have all the benefits of apartments as well. While you'd still want an aetheryte, house owners can also skip stables and mailboxes then just use their apartment ones.
• You get most of the furnishing options yes, but you don't get all of them. Outdoor includes rewards, rare drops, convenient striking dummies, etc.
• Given one of the arguments for wards is the "neighbourhood" feeling, outdoor furnishings are better at showing off and a well done yard can encourage people to take a look inside where you can show off even more.
• Participation rates on outdoor gardening also don't really matter, it's a system you get locked out of and don't have a choice about. It also makes sense for it to be low priority to address the issues with it given so few people can access it

Relying on the definition of housing is a matter of semantics and ambiguity, that definition is for the real world and we're talking about systems in a game. The systems are similar yes, but apartments have much more in common with FC rooms to the point that they're not particularly meaningfully distinct depending on your permissions and what your fc has bought.

The Biggest deiffence between Housing and Apartments is you can not add tenants to your apartment meaning if you eternal bond in game you cant live with your spouse....and yard lol

[Sairys]

You are not only asking them to copy other game's system and you are also asking them to invest physical hardwares into something only minimal players will actively using.
That is why I said it is not optimal not only to corporate suits and also SE's shareholders.
Invest server hardwares into datacenter expansion in contrast is more optimal

Let me further explain on how your idea will not work.
Beside investment of hardware resources, you are also pretty much asking the devs to spend development resources into creating a new system on top or original system (only drawback by supply unable to meet demmand)
How many hot potatoes that current devs have right now?

Let's list:
Hrothgars almost turned into forum terrorist during their persuade of Hrothgar refinement and female Hrothgar
PvP side, in which is now quite big chuck of playerbases also demanding further refinement of currentPvP system
Playerbase also want a better report system for TOS abuse and harassments, urgently.
Majority of players want better gear design
The list will just go on and on...

Why would them want to recreate/copy a system from scratch?

In theory housing is already a hardware investment only minimal players are using and there's no way to ensure it's distributed to the people that would actively use it the most.

Also, housing availability is a long standing issue and has led to "bad press" at times. On top of that the current system is limiting in a way that other housing systems aren't.
They could open up the option to have instance options on the mogshop or as rewards, housing rewards for things could also become much more common when everyone can have one. There's also more of an argument for improving things in the system, we have the crafters workbenches which could be upgraded, for example, to potentially be an investment that can make crafter levelling much faster.

[Divinemights]

In theory housing is already a hardware investment only minimal players are using and there's no way to ensure it's distributed to the people that would actively use it the most.

Also, housing availability is a long standing issue and has led to "bad press" at times. On top of that the current system is limiting in a way that other housing systems aren't.
They could open up the option to have instance options on the mogshop or as rewards, housing rewards for things could also become much more common when everyone can have one. There's also more of an argument for improving things in the system, we have the crafters workbenches which could be upgraded, for example, to potentially be an investment that can make crafter levelling much faster.

Use server hardware to release new plot versus use service hardware to expand datacenter World Server, which is better long term investment?
Both are more optimal than refurbish existing system

[Sairys]

And both FC rooms and apartments are included in the housing system of this game. You can't sit there screaming "they're not housing" when they are. It's not the lack of a feature that creates most of the difference between a house and an apartment, it's the quantity of the feature.

You're like a child screaming "that's not an ice cream sundae because it only has one scoop of ice cream and is missing the cherry on the top". As long as it's got the ice cream and some sort of toppings that include a sauce, it's an ice cream sundae. Apartments are still housing because they have the base qualities of housing (a place reserved for the player that the player can customize to create a home for their character).

Trying to redefine the word to suit your goals isn't going to get you anywhere.

Again, you should be describing what you want from housing, how a house provides that something and how an apartment does not instead of stamping your verbal feet going "apartments aren't housing!"

Your quantity argument here again points to why you're incorrect. The difference between plot sizes is a matter of quantity, larger plots have greater capacities but they're otherwise the same in terms of actual features available. The difference between Houses and Apartments is both quantity and also a lack, if Apartments did not lack features and only had lesser quantities then they would be the same.
Even with your argument that IRL apartments and houses are both defined as housing, the reality is that there are things you can do with an IRL house that aren't possible with an apartment.


However, the simplest issue here is that apartments and houses refer to two concepts with are understood commonly enough for discussion. Obfuscating things by saying they're both the same is just distracting from the discussion, especially when you're also pointing out how they're not actually the same. Arguably the discussion you seem to want to have is a lot more convoluted than just being able to point at houses and say "we want that rather than apartments".

edit: Perhaps for another example, equating Apartments and Houses is kinda like equating players on the Free Trial vs those who have bought the game. They have access to some features, but not everything.

[Sairys]

Use server hardware to release new plot versus use service hardware to expand datacenter World Server, which is better long term investment?
Both are more optimal than refurbish existing system

Expanding world servers would mean expanding housing servers, so arguably it seems rather simple to say that if the worlds can handle their player counts then more plots is better.

Also optimal is a presumption, refurbishing the existing system could potentially make the handling of housing more efficient and open up server space for other uses.

[Netaie]

Not trying to claim it should be a problem but with how SE created the instancing system for housing it is. And your explanation shows out why it's not easy to fix, which was the point I made. Budget is a struggle even for a billion dollar company.

To be honest, most of the time when you see status quo on a simple problematic feature it is more about leadership control which implies decisions bottleneck than a real budget issue. Heavy/Long process validation is not always a good thing. I can guarantee you that some designers and programmers at SE already made some proposals or prototypes. They can be as frustrated as players about a blocking situation. But the thing is, as long as leadership will consider the situation good enough there will be no change, even the smallest one

[Jojoya]

Your quantity argument here again points to why you're incorrect. The difference between plot sizes is a matter of quantity, larger plots have greater capacities but they're otherwise the same in terms of actual features available. The difference between Houses and Apartments is both quantity and also a lack, if Apartments did not lack features and only had lesser quantities then they would be the same.
Even with your argument that IRL apartments and houses are both defined as housing, the reality is that there are things you can do with an IRL house that aren't possible with an apartment.


However, the simplest issue here is that apartments and houses refer to two concepts with are understood commonly enough for discussion. Obfuscating things by saying they're both the same is just distracting from the discussion, especially when you're also pointing out how they're not actually the same. Arguably the discussion you seem to want to have is a lot more convoluted than just being able to point at houses and say "we want that rather than apartments".

edit: Perhaps for another example, equating Apartments and Houses is kinda like equating players on the Free Trial vs those who have bought the game. They have access to some features, but not everything.

What am I incorrect about?

Contrary to your claim, at no point have I said that apartments and houses are the same thing. I haven't. All I've said is that both are housing, which is true.

In the meantime, you continue to play semantics game instead of answering the question I posed to you that would actually be useful feedback for the developers. Let me try asking it again.

What are you looking for from housing, why does a house provide what you want and why does an apartment not provide what you want?

Believe it or not, I'm on your side. I want you to have a house. I want other players who don't have a house to get houses as well. I want everyone to be able to enjoy the system.

But if players aren't providing constructive feedback, the developers aren't getting useful information to consider when they go to make design decisions.

"Apartments aren't housing" is not constructive feedback.

"Apartments are not the housing I want because... " then followed by a list of specific reasons would be.

[Themarvin]

I don't think SE should bend down to this demand in anyway, given reason, no matter what you get... you already got the next complaints ligned up.... and want to see the maneger again!!

Very few of these houses is actually used and we see wards that most of the time is ghost villages, raise the requirements for housing... set auto deme to 20 days or something, so you can't just leave the game, for the lack of housing enforce the rules.... 1 FC 1 House per DC only... removal of grandfathering and enforcement of people who go to multiple servers on their DC to buy up houses, now made easy by entering the lottery, freeing up more lots plugs at least some of the holes.


Add taxes to houses, so it would cost a million a month or something to keep property any size, except apartments.. most people who is active stand in hotspots anyway that is not player wards.... and those houses that is very active is clubs in any kind of shady way of being... where you even have to pay for a VIP membership for all features, which I think is not right either.