How to fix housing in 2 steps

[Divinemights]

The only resolution (not fix because nothing is broken to begin with) to address this supply vs demand is not to add more ward
I think it is time for SE to expand the datacenter from 8 servers into 9 or 10.
Any other request such as copy other game's instanced housing isn't really optimal.

[Jojoya]

The only resolution (not fix because nothing is broken to begin with) to address this supply vs demand is not to add more ward
I think it is time for SE to expand the datacenter from 8 servers into 9 or 10.
Any other request such as copy other game's instanced housing isn't really optimal.

They clearly struggle with player log-ins when there are too many worlds on a logical data center. That's why the JP worlds just got split from 10-11-11 to 8-8-8-8.

Increasing the number of worlds and adding more data centers for those worlds is needed not for housing sake but for the sake of the expanded player population. Even with 4 new worlds next month and another 4 next year, NA is packed tight compared to EU and JP. What NA really needs is 6 data centers with 48 worlds. That would bring the average population closer to what it is n the JP worlds not to mention add more plots.

Optimal in the case of housing systems is very subjective. I'd still give up my Mist medium in a heartbeat if an instanced system with the choice and functionality of RIFT's Dimensions was added to this game. Creativity was not limited there as it is here and the search function made it very easy to find and visit Dimensions owned by other players. The thousands of Likes listed on many Dimensions showed that. It's just a shame the other content in that game was mediocre.

[Divinemights]

They clearly struggle with player log-ins when there are too many worlds on a logical data center. That's why the JP worlds just got split from 10-11-11 to 8-8-8-8.

Increasing the number of worlds and adding more data centers for those worlds is needed not for housing sake but for the sake of the expanded player population. Even with 4 new worlds next month and another 4 next year, NA is packed tight compared to EU and JP. What NA really needs is 6 data centers with 48 worlds. That would bring the average population closer to what it is n the JP worlds not to mention add more plots.

Optimal in the case of housing systems is very subjective. I'd still give up my Mist medium in a heartbeat if an instanced system with the choice and functionality of RIFT's Dimensions was added to this game. Creativity was not limited there as it is here and the search function made it very easy to find and visit Dimensions owned by other players. The thousands of Likes listed on many Dimensions showed that. It's just a shame the other content in that game was mediocre.

You are not only asking them to copy other game's system and you are also asking them to invest physical hardwares into something only minimal players will actively using.
That is why I said it is not optimal not only to corporate suits and also SE's shareholders.
Invest server hardwares into datacenter expansion in contrast is more optimal

Let me further explain on how your idea will not work.
Beside investment of hardware resources, you are also pretty much asking the devs to spend development resources into creating a new system on top or original system (only drawback by supply unable to meet demmand)
How many hot potatoes that current devs have right now?

Let's list:
Hrothgars almost turned into forum terrorist during their persuade of Hrothgar refinement and female Hrothgar
PvP side, in which is now quite big chuck of playerbases also demanding further refinement of currentPvP system
Playerbase also want a better report system for TOS abuse and harassments, urgently.
Majority of players want better gear design
The list will just go on and on...

Why would them want to recreate/copy a system from scratch?

[Jojoya]

You are not only asking them to copy other game's system and you are also asking them to invest physical hardwares into something only minimal players will actively using.

You don't know how much hardware is actually required nor how much a new system would get used (especially considering how many players would then have access to something they currently don't have).


By your definition, the current system is even less than optimal. Look at all that wasted server memory for the sake of a single player who happens to be standing alone in a ward compared to optimal use of that memory for instanced housing.

Let me further explain on how your idea will not work.
Beside investment of hardware resources, you are also pretty much asking the devs to spend development resources into creating a new system on top or original system (only drawback by supply unable to meet demmand)

They don't need to create a completely new system from scratch. They can copy existing systems for a starting template and improve on those.

Hrothgars almost turned into forum terrorist during their persuade of Hrothgar refinement and female Hrothgar

Not certain how the activities of a very tiny group of forum posters relates to developers working on improvements to housing system. I doubt that the team responsible for player character model customization also handles housing.

PvP side, in which is now quite big chuck of playerbases also demanding further refinement of currentPvP system

The developers working on PvP are most definitely not the developers working on housing.

Playerbase also want a better report system for TOS abuse and harassments, urgently.

Now this might actually a connection with housing as I imagine the UI team probably multi-tasks across different areas of the game. But then again depending on which route SE might choose for housing improvements, need for assistance from the UI team could be minimal if needed at all.

Majority of players want better gear design

The developers working on gear are not the developers working on housing.

Why would them want to recreate/copy a system from scratch?

Why have the remade anything in the game? Because enough players were not happy with the existing version and requested improvements. Most jobs in the game play nothing like they did back in 2.0. Most of what's left is ability names.

Why should housing be the only thing in the game they're not allowed to update when there is such a demand for housing? Because it will infringe on the prestige you assume you have as a house owner?

Relying on the definition of housing is a matter of semantics and ambiguity, that definition is for the real world and we're talking about systems in a game. The systems are similar yes, but apartments have much more in common with FC rooms to the point that they're not particularly meaningfully distinct depending on your permissions and what your fc has bought.

And both FC rooms and apartments are included in the housing system of this game. You can't sit there screaming "they're not housing" when they are. It's not the lack of a feature that creates most of the difference between a house and an apartment, it's the quantity of the feature.

You're like a child screaming "that's not an ice cream sundae because it only has one scoop of ice cream and is missing the cherry on the top". As long as it's got the ice cream and some sort of toppings that include a sauce, it's an ice cream sundae. Apartments are still housing because they have the base qualities of housing (a place reserved for the player that the player can customize to create a home for their character).

Trying to redefine the word to suit your goals isn't going to get you anywhere.

Again, you should be describing what you want from housing, how a house provides that something and how an apartment does not instead of stamping your verbal feet going "apartments aren't housing!"

[Sairys]

And both FC rooms and apartments are included in the housing system of this game. You can't sit there screaming "they're not housing" when they are. It's not the lack of a feature that creates most of the difference between a house and an apartment, it's the quantity of the feature.

You're like a child screaming "that's not an ice cream sundae because it only has one scoop of ice cream and is missing the cherry on the top". As long as it's got the ice cream and some sort of toppings that include a sauce, it's an ice cream sundae. Apartments are still housing because they have the base qualities of housing (a place reserved for the player that the player can customize to create a home for their character).

Trying to redefine the word to suit your goals isn't going to get you anywhere.

Again, you should be describing what you want from housing, how a house provides that something and how an apartment does not instead of stamping your verbal feet going "apartments aren't housing!"

Your quantity argument here again points to why you're incorrect. The difference between plot sizes is a matter of quantity, larger plots have greater capacities but they're otherwise the same in terms of actual features available. The difference between Houses and Apartments is both quantity and also a lack, if Apartments did not lack features and only had lesser quantities then they would be the same.
Even with your argument that IRL apartments and houses are both defined as housing, the reality is that there are things you can do with an IRL house that aren't possible with an apartment.


However, the simplest issue here is that apartments and houses refer to two concepts with are understood commonly enough for discussion. Obfuscating things by saying they're both the same is just distracting from the discussion, especially when you're also pointing out how they're not actually the same. Arguably the discussion you seem to want to have is a lot more convoluted than just being able to point at houses and say "we want that rather than apartments".

edit: Perhaps for another example, equating Apartments and Houses is kinda like equating players on the Free Trial vs those who have bought the game. They have access to some features, but not everything.

[Jojoya]

Your quantity argument here again points to why you're incorrect. The difference between plot sizes is a matter of quantity, larger plots have greater capacities but they're otherwise the same in terms of actual features available. The difference between Houses and Apartments is both quantity and also a lack, if Apartments did not lack features and only had lesser quantities then they would be the same.
Even with your argument that IRL apartments and houses are both defined as housing, the reality is that there are things you can do with an IRL house that aren't possible with an apartment.


However, the simplest issue here is that apartments and houses refer to two concepts with are understood commonly enough for discussion. Obfuscating things by saying they're both the same is just distracting from the discussion, especially when you're also pointing out how they're not actually the same. Arguably the discussion you seem to want to have is a lot more convoluted than just being able to point at houses and say "we want that rather than apartments".

edit: Perhaps for another example, equating Apartments and Houses is kinda like equating players on the Free Trial vs those who have bought the game. They have access to some features, but not everything.

What am I incorrect about?

Contrary to your claim, at no point have I said that apartments and houses are the same thing. I haven't. All I've said is that both are housing, which is true.

In the meantime, you continue to play semantics game instead of answering the question I posed to you that would actually be useful feedback for the developers. Let me try asking it again.

What are you looking for from housing, why does a house provide what you want and why does an apartment not provide what you want?

Believe it or not, I'm on your side. I want you to have a house. I want other players who don't have a house to get houses as well. I want everyone to be able to enjoy the system.

But if players aren't providing constructive feedback, the developers aren't getting useful information to consider when they go to make design decisions.

"Apartments aren't housing" is not constructive feedback.

"Apartments are not the housing I want because... " then followed by a list of specific reasons would be.

[Netaie]

What are you looking for from housing, why does a house provide what you want and why does an apartment not provide what you want?

For me:
- a balcony to have some kind of garden place with a real view on the outside (obviously instantiated, easy to make think about Limsa Lominsa when you are in the upper deck and watch the main Aetheryte)
- a bigger room (it is really small if you are a little creative)
- more item to put in because 100 items is so easy to reach (maybe a PS4 limit?)

With this, no need for a house for me

[Sairys]

What am I incorrect about?

Contrary to your claim, at no point have I said that apartments and houses are the same thing. I haven't. All I've said is that both are housing, which is true.

In the meantime, you continue to play semantics game instead of answering the question I posed to you that would actually be useful feedback for the developers. Let me try asking it again.

What are you looking for from housing, why does a house provide what you want and why does an apartment not provide what you want?

Believe it or not, I'm on your side. I want you to have a house. I want other players who don't have a house to get houses as well. I want everyone to be able to enjoy the system.

But if players aren't providing constructive feedback, the developers aren't getting useful information to consider when they go to make design decisions.

"Apartments aren't housing" is not constructive feedback.

"Apartments are not the housing I want because... " then followed by a list of specific reasons would be.

Take a step back, breathe, and reread the posts without worrying about being right about the semantics debate you started. Because what you're asking for here has been said already.

There is no point to creating a list when the list is just how houses and apartments are different. Really... trying to open the discussion to feature lists invites wish lists that may even make apartments better than houses and can become prescriptive to the devs rather than leaving it open to them to find ways to achieve that. For example, the desire for an outdoor space can be achieved via balconies or a garden space, each might offer different opportunities to address things and one might be more effective than the other so it's simpler to just leave it open rather than focusing on any specific solution.

[Sairys]

You are not only asking them to copy other game's system and you are also asking them to invest physical hardwares into something only minimal players will actively using.
That is why I said it is not optimal not only to corporate suits and also SE's shareholders.
Invest server hardwares into datacenter expansion in contrast is more optimal

Let me further explain on how your idea will not work.
Beside investment of hardware resources, you are also pretty much asking the devs to spend development resources into creating a new system on top or original system (only drawback by supply unable to meet demmand)
How many hot potatoes that current devs have right now?

Let's list:
Hrothgars almost turned into forum terrorist during their persuade of Hrothgar refinement and female Hrothgar
PvP side, in which is now quite big chuck of playerbases also demanding further refinement of currentPvP system
Playerbase also want a better report system for TOS abuse and harassments, urgently.
Majority of players want better gear design
The list will just go on and on...

Why would them want to recreate/copy a system from scratch?

In theory housing is already a hardware investment only minimal players are using and there's no way to ensure it's distributed to the people that would actively use it the most.

Also, housing availability is a long standing issue and has led to "bad press" at times. On top of that the current system is limiting in a way that other housing systems aren't.
They could open up the option to have instance options on the mogshop or as rewards, housing rewards for things could also become much more common when everyone can have one. There's also more of an argument for improving things in the system, we have the crafters workbenches which could be upgraded, for example, to potentially be an investment that can make crafter levelling much faster.

[Divinemights]

In theory housing is already a hardware investment only minimal players are using and there's no way to ensure it's distributed to the people that would actively use it the most.

Also, housing availability is a long standing issue and has led to "bad press" at times. On top of that the current system is limiting in a way that other housing systems aren't.
They could open up the option to have instance options on the mogshop or as rewards, housing rewards for things could also become much more common when everyone can have one. There's also more of an argument for improving things in the system, we have the crafters workbenches which could be upgraded, for example, to potentially be an investment that can make crafter levelling much faster.

Use server hardware to release new plot versus use service hardware to expand datacenter World Server, which is better long term investment?
Both are more optimal than refurbish existing system