basic-standard-advanced COMBO?

[ICountFrom0]

Is this the bread and butter for crafting now?

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Not exactly. It is a powerful combo for macros of 70 durab items, but it is not easy to put into action for 35 durab items.

I did create 1 macro which I incorporated the Basic-Standard-Adv (BSA) combo under Innov once for 35 durab items, but that's all I could do for a 35 durab item macro rotation. Prudent Touch will still be a lot easier for the design, since it goes so damn well with Manipulation, and doesn't deplete durab as quickly.

As for 70 durab, you also have other strong actions as choices, e.g. usually starting off with a MuMe, Manip, Vene, Waste Not, 1 or 2 Groundworks and then followed up with 1 or 2 Prep Touch would be a stronger opener than using a BSA combo. After that, usually durab is already rather low, so the BSA is difficult to be utilized. I have seen it being used in a 70 durab rotation twice from one of Liam Harper's rotations (probably used Waste Not II, so the remaining BSA touches can all land within the WN2). But the fact is, the BSA combo isn't really "bread and butter" for crafting.

In manual crafting, it's very easy to have a Good popping in the middle of the combo. When that happens, it's almost always better to use Precise Touch instead, which breaks the combo. So even in manual crafting, it isn't that great... Sometimes, I'd rather stick with Innov + Prudent spam under Manipulation, since that allows super flexible use of any Good that pops up.

[ICountFrom0]

*nods* I thought it kind of looked better then it was. Why is crafting full of bait, noob traps, and unintended methods that end up being required.

(and why do I always fall for them, rofl)

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Make no mistake, it is a very strong combo, especially when under Innovation and Waste Not (or Waste Not II). The first 18-CP touch is less CP efficient than Prudent, the 2nd 18-CP touch is somewhat similar, the 3rd is much more CP efficient than Prudent. Overall speaking, if the BSA combo is executed under Innov and WN, it is more CP efficient than Innov + Prudent spam.

However, in manual crafting, especially at endgame, we rarely use WN2 due to its inflexibility. Meanwhile, using WN before the BSA combo has its problems too, e.g. Innov -> WN -> BSA will waste 1 step of Innov, while Innov -> Prudent spam doesn't have this problem. Because of that, the BSA combo isn't particularly efficient with CP comparing to Prudent spam. And if it is executed without WN or WN2, it is not as CP efficient, and depletes durab relatively quickly.

[Silverbane]

I find the question of what the "bread and butter" of crafting is at endgame thought-provoking.

Is it crafting high-end gear like the classical gear?
Or is it mass producing food or other consumables for the market?

I tend to be doing more of the latter at the moment, so my "bread and butter" is fast macros that are guaranteed to turn out HQ products from NQ mats without needing food.
Like this 12-step one I use for (among other things) Tsai tou Vounou:

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Waste Not II" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Veneration" <wait.2>
/ac "Groundwork" <wait.3>
/ac "Groundwork" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.1>

This works 100% of the time for my current un-fed CUL stats: Craft 3787 Ctrl 3500 CP 576 (from mainly-penta-melded Pactmaker/Integral gear).

And when we get 590 right-hand gear, you can bet that if I can shave off a step by heavily melding it, I will. I enjoy solving this time-optimization puzzle.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Actually, considering how Basic Touch and Standard Touch are both available at very low level, they can be quite frequently used for lower level crafts. That is, if you have sufficient CP, you can effectively replace Hasty Touches with BT-ST combos (I dunno if you can call that "bread and butter"). At lower levels, there isn't many tools in the arsenal (no prudent, no prep touch, no precise), so BT-ST is a pretty good move, especially when a Good pops after a significant IQ is built up... then instead of taking in more CP with a Trick, might as well use BT-ST combo. Or if the Good pops after executing BT, then there's absolutely no reason to back down from finishing the combo with ST on the Good. It'll result in a 250 efficiency touch, which is probably much better than taking a Trick.