Windows 8 Compatibility

[Haibel]

I have to LOL at all the people that don't understand Win8 and Metro UI. One of the Reasons for windows 8 Is to do away with the need for a hardware Bios. Which is something Google is trying to do with Chromium. Also another concept with Both OSX and Google is the Cloud integration. Microsoft is also moving to this Idea and has been slowly, very slowly moving to this for years. Microsoft is making win8 to be much like OSX in they they won't have to build a new OS anymore. They can just keep updating this mush like the way OSX has been for years.

As for the metro UI on a desktop. I can guaranty nobody that complains about it has used it with a Arc Touch mouse. You can have multitouch input on a desktop and it works great. If you don't think so I suggest you get the right equipment and try it out they way it's meant to be used.

[Delsus]

I have to LOL at all the people that don't understand Win8 and Metro UI. One of the Reasons for windows 8 Is to do away with the need for a hardware Bios. Which is something Google is trying to do with Chromium. Also another concept with Both OSX and Google is the Cloud integration. Microsoft is also moving to this Idea and has been slowly, very slowly moving to this for years. Microsoft is making win8 to be much like OSX in they they won't have to build a new OS anymore. They can just keep updating this mush like the way OSX has been for years.

As for the metro UI on a desktop. I can guaranty nobody that complains about it has used it with a Arc Touch mouse. You can have multitouch input on a desktop and it works great. If you don't think so I suggest you get the right equipment and try it out they way it's meant to be used.

Microsoft has hardly ever completly rebuilt an OS, 95 and 98 are essentially the same at the core, just a few changes to make the latter better, Windows XP was based on 2000 and NT at the core, even Windows 7 is based on Vista (alot of changes for stability etc), Windows 7 is Vista 2.0, but they needed to rebrand it, because of the tarnished reputation of Vista.

Also what you are saying is we HAVE to buy something that looks like it was made by a 5 year old to use it properly, that Arc touch mouse is the uglyest thing I have seen, it does not look comfortable to use, and looks like it will suck for games.

Seriously, the metro UI is made for tablets and phones, I will hate using it hated everything to do with metro with a mouse and touchpad (multi-touch)

Microsoft WILL loose people by forcing them to use metro, the (what they call it) Legacy start menu is ideal, everything is there, in a logical order (alphabetical) whereas on metro they are in the order you install them, it will be a nightmare finding things among hundreds of apps and programs, they can't even make the tiles the same size, some have large ones others have small ones, it looks ugly. I will be downloading the release preview, and probably beta if I can get hold of it to try out (alot has changed since developer preview) but my expectations are extremely low after what I saw in the developer preview.

I believe Windows 8 will fail badly (looking at ME style failure) on PCs and laptops, Metro will however work on phones and tablets, Microsoft could have done one thing, have metro enabled by default, but add the classic desktop and start menu as an option, alot will use metro because they stick with defaults, people who really cared about it will switch, or if they like it even stick with metro, this is the wonderful thing about linux, you don't like one thing, change it.

[Soukyuu]

As for the metro UI on a desktop. I can guaranty nobody that complains about it has used it with a Arc Touch mouse. You can have multitouch input on a desktop and it works great. If you don't think so I suggest you get the right equipment and try it out they way it's meant to be used.

You missed the point. What you are telling us is to get a touch device - exactly what Metro is made for and is good for.
The point is, over 99% of desktop PCs do not have touch devices. Forcing a touch based UI on desktop users is a mistake.

[Delsus]

You missed the point. What you are telling us is to get a touch device - exactly what Metro is made for and is good for.
The point is, over 99% of desktop PCs do not have touch devices. Forcing a touch based UI on desktop users is a mistake.

^^ Agree 100%, now if they offered the option of desktop or metro we would have no problems.

[Maneki]

I've been running Win8 since the Consumer Preview came out and now doing the Release Preview. I've seen some good improvements in terms of performance over 7 and a lot lower memory footprint overall. Base install also only too about 15 minutes from a USB key to an SSD.

In regards to gaming performance, it's really less about the OS and much more about the hardware drivers. I had some pretty major issues with the AMD driver release for CP. Going to the RP drivers fixed a lot of issues I had, especially with Eyefinity.

In terms of day to day use, I most of my computers have Win8 now. I use it at work and on two of my machines at home. Metro does take getting used to, and I'll admit there are some issues with mouse control, but they're not huge. I've gotten used to the changes and really like the polish that has been put on the RP.

With that said, Microsoft's target for a new OS aren't really people with existing hardware. The vast majority of computers that get upgraded are on the business side and much less in the consumer market. Most of the people who wind up with Win8 are the ones who buy new computers with it preloaded. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more touch-based hardware coming out this fall. Only Apple users really consistently plunk down the $100 (or whatever it is) every 2 years to get a new release of OSX.

Finally, it's a bit unfair to blame the poor performance of FFXIV (especially when it comes to the UAC prompt) on the OS. To me, that's just a lack of testing and lazy coding. Maybe it's something unavoidable, but how do other games get around it? If you really understand how UAC works, it's easier to appreciate what the purpose is. The "secure desktop" is actually a different user session than the standard desktop. Therefore, anything in that user session is completely separate from your standard login and mostly unreachable by malware or code of any type.

This seems to cause problems for XIV since it doesn't know how to deal with DirectX suddenly getting paused. I don't see this as a Windows problem, since the feature existed long before XIV came into play.

[Delsus]

I've been running Win8 since the Consumer Preview came out and now doing the Release Preview. I've seen some good improvements in terms of performance over 7 and a lot lower memory footprint overall. Base install also only too about 15 minutes from a USB key to an SSD.

In regards to gaming performance, it's really less about the OS and much more about the hardware drivers. I had some pretty major issues with the AMD driver release for CP. Going to the RP drivers fixed a lot of issues I had, especially with Eyefinity.

In terms of day to day use, I most of my computers have Win8 now. I use it at work and on two of my machines at home. Metro does take getting used to, and I'll admit there are some issues with mouse control, but they're not huge. I've gotten used to the changes and really like the polish that has been put on the RP.

With that said, Microsoft's target for a new OS aren't really people with existing hardware. The vast majority of computers that get upgraded are on the business side and much less in the consumer market. Most of the people who wind up with Win8 are the ones who buy new computers with it preloaded. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more touch-based hardware coming out this fall. Only Apple users really consistently plunk down the $100 (or whatever it is) every 2 years to get a new release of OSX.

Finally, it's a bit unfair to blame the poor performance of FFXIV (especially when it comes to the UAC prompt) on the OS. To me, that's just a lack of testing and lazy coding. Maybe it's something unavoidable, but how do other games get around it? If you really understand how UAC works, it's easier to appreciate what the purpose is. The "secure desktop" is actually a different user session than the standard desktop. Therefore, anything in that user session is completely separate from your standard login and mostly unreachable by malware or code of any type.

This seems to cause problems for XIV since it doesn't know how to deal with DirectX suddenly getting paused. I don't see this as a Windows problem, since the feature existed long before XIV came into play.

I have a MSDNAA account so I will probably install Win8 on my laptop when it is released, I have no idea how long I wil stay on it for, what I am saying is Microsoft think they know what users want, which is why its metro or gtfo, where as Linux offers loads of customisation options, from the changes compiz config manager can do (wobbly windows, window blur, desktop cube etc) all the way to a completly new desktop environment (KDE or gnome) this is what microsoft need to look at, people will say metro sucks, people will say they cannot use a touch based interface with a mouse etc MS could easily make everyone happy by offering the option of desktop or metro but the worse thing they could do is force us to use one.

If I pay £600+ for something I want to use it as I want, not how some money grabbing accountants want me to use,

As I said before I can see Win8 becoming a ME style failure because they are forcing us on something that is sub par.

Also I am not against MS, I just don't like being told how to use something, I like being able to cusomise things to work as I want, hense why I love linux so much, and the only reason I don't switch perminantly is just compatibility.

[Maneki]

I have a MSDNAA account so I will probably install Win8 on my laptop when it is released, I have no idea how long I wil stay on it for, what I am saying is Microsoft think they know what users want, which is why its metro or gtfo, where as Linux offers loads of customisation options, from the changes compiz config manager can do (wobbly windows, window blur, desktop cube etc) all the way to a completly new desktop environment (KDE or gnome) this is what microsoft need to look at, people will say metro sucks, people will say they cannot use a touch based interface with a mouse etc MS could easily make everyone happy by offering the option of desktop or metro but the worse thing they could do is force us to use one.

If I pay £600+ for something I want to use it as I want, not how some money grabbing accountants want me to use,

As I said before I can see Win8 becoming a ME style failure because they are forcing us on something that is sub par.

Also I am not against MS, I just don't like being told how to use something, I like being able to cusomise things to work as I want, hense why I love linux so much, and the only reason I don't switch perminantly is just compatibility.

From a business perspective, there's a lot that Win8 is trying to accomplish. There's a huge gap in the tablet market (that was largely pioneered by Microsoft before Apple came out with the iPad) that Microsoft needs to make up, and for better or for worse, Win8 is the answer. Yes, Win8 is geared towards touch-based devices. In a year or two, I'd venture to say the majority of consumer devices will have a touch screen. If Microsoft waits for that to happen (or isn't a part of that trend), then it'll be far too late to break into the market.

Yes, there's recognition of folks that like customization. However, for the majority of the market, people buy devices and never actually change anything about them. Not everyone can cater to everyone, just to the majority. If you like your customization, then stick with Win7 for now. I also don't see Metro (or a derivative) going away in future iterations of Windows.

[Delsus]

From a business perspective, there's a lot that Win8 is trying to accomplish. There's a huge gap in the tablet market (that was largely pioneered by Microsoft before Apple came out with the iPad) that Microsoft needs to make up, and for better or for worse, Win8 is the answer. Yes, Win8 is geared towards touch-based devices. In a year or two, I'd venture to say the majority of consumer devices will have a touch screen. If Microsoft waits for that to happen (or isn't a part of that trend), then it'll be far too late to break into the market.

Yes, there's recognition of folks that like customization. However, for the majority of the market, people buy devices and never actually change anything about them. Not everyone can cater to everyone, just to the majority. If you like your customization, then stick with Win7 for now. I also don't see Metro (or a derivative) going away in future iterations of Windows.

While I do agree PCs are moving towards touchscreens, MS has made it clear we are not allowed to use a desktop and start menu any more, they have sone this by desperately removing all the hacks to access the start menu, anyone with a sense of logic would offer both the desktop and UIs have metro as the default, people who either like it or don't want to change things around will stick (most people) but the people who like a desktop built around a keyboard and mouse can use it. Win8 on mobiles and tablets will succed (if MS can get companies to use them) Win8 on PC will fail, there was never anything wrong with the desktop why change it?

Also the thing is the good old keyboard and mouse will never go out because of gamers, there will always be a demand for things that work with a keyboard and mouse because people have been using them for 20-30 years now and are use to them, however if (and this is a big if) the mouse went completly obsolete then they switch to metro full time, but, for now, MS needs to give us a desktop or Win8 WILL fail no ifs or buts if people cannot use metro with a keyboard and mouse we will have Win9 in 2-3 years time.

I am not saying Win8 should not use metro, I am saying give us the option, then when touchscreen PCs are the norm they use metro only.