Thread: SAM: 6.2 Excited

Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

You guys have behaved just as poorly as you claim Vencio to.

No.

He has regularly come into threads to stink the place up, starting with a feedback post I made myself a few months ago:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ZY.-Here-s-why

He opens with calling people "stubborn fools" and then retreats to a position of "well it's just my opinion" when called out on it. He is a troll, here to stir up trouble for the sake of it. Do not give him the benefit of the doubt. There have been a handful (they are rare but they do exist) of other people who seem to genuinely support the direction SAM is going, and they have stated as such. But they have done so in a way that doesn't denigrate people who are against the 6.1 SAM changes.

As to the "parses as validity" argument, yes, parses are an indicator of familiarity, experience, skill and understanding of a job. They are not the only indicator of course, but they are a fairly reliable one. A player who regularly parses at least green in normal content is someone who, at the worst, understands the fundamentals of a job and how it's kit is used both from a personal and group-focused perspective. Parses are not the end-all be-all of course, but a person with a good parse will always have a better fundamental understanding of how a job works than someone with a bad parse. This is because - in order to get a good parse - you need to have a solid grasp of the basics. Not just of your job but of the game as well.

You may be tempted to say "but this doesn't invalidate his opinion!" to which I will say "yes, yes it does." No one here has a problem with someone coming into the game and playing it super casually, with little-to-no desire to improve themselves, just as long as they are at least doing the bare minimum for their role; keep aggro as a tank, keep the GCD rolling (*ANY* damage GCD) as a dps and keep people alive as a healer. What we have a problem with is someone who clearly does not understand the job nor plays it seriously intentionally fouling the waters with useless posts and bad takes designed entirely to inflame others.

If there has been any "poor behavior" in regards to Vencio then he has brought it on himself. Expecting people to take getting trashed without responding is ridiculous. Trolls and the like need to be pushed back against as they see silence as assent. Furthermore, the devs need to see that the player base is not on-board with the troll and his troll-y ideas.

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

snip

Pointing out the Dev's flaws when they said
- Try it out / Give us your Feedback
Followed with months of silence, is that somehow 5000% worse for calling it out?

Or explaining Kaiten in-depth met with the debunked argument point of
- But it's just 1 button / That you just press it every time
Silly for 1 side to denigrate this take but not the other way around right?

Or the overused argument of 6.1 being only about Kaiten loss, met with
- Settle for worse / Shut-up / You're top performing anyways /But the Dev's feelings
Is every feedback no matter how constructive, suddenly a personal attack towards a Dev?

Not every Feedback that they asked for? is by default an Attack. And I have a very hard time being sympathetic to the idea of " Victimizing a Billion-Dollar Company " vs us wanting our Feedback being heard. That and apologists or trolls since they all start to all look-alike.

Respect goes both ways, of which SE and the Dev's haven't been in my opinion with 6.1, at least not for a lot of SAMs. Then again you also have healer-mains waiting for years for something more other then " Glare ".

The mindset that the Dev's can do no wrong, is a " mentality " I won't adopt. Though for those who do, I can see why that can lead to dismissing every feedback as " a display of people just being mad ".

Then again that would be trollish shallow, who would do that? amirite

Originally Posted by Kabooa

You deal with Trolls by not giving them any attention.

Giving them even an ounce of your effort means they have won the exchange.

I'll say nothing further here as an example, and the rest of you should do the same.

If we weren't on a feedback forum I might agree with you. But long life experience has taught me that ignoring bad people is not how you make them go away. You don't fix problems by pretending they're not there like a camel with it's head in the sand.

Now, don't mistake what I'm saying for support of engaging with him. Obviously the internet plays a bit differently. But what I did - warning someone about the history of a bad actor - is drastically different from any kind of actual engagement.