RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

[Ransu]

love waking up to see that the devs did indeed go the "let's tell them to give feedback to placate them" route. but i guess we can all just wait until the 23rd now to see if the devs decide to have a final piss on us as well after slapping us in the face for the past four months or so with their silence.

also love seeing people going "oh it's great that they're going to start explaining the reasoning behind their changes in the patch notes now" as if they're not just going to get some transparent, flimsy ass bullshit reasoning that anyone who mains the job would be able to pick apart within seconds.

I expect nothing more than potency changes. SAM is officially dead.

[Flashy]

I expect nothing more than potency changes. SAM is officially dead.

They'll add +10 to Yukikaze, Gekko, and Kasha because we love playing SAM for the big combo finishers

[AnotherPerson]

Ageha is not essential to the rotation, all you do is press it when the enemy is at <20%, better remove it.
Seigan is not essential to the rotation, all you do is press it after mitigating an attack, better remove it.
Kaiten is not essential to the rotation, all you do is press it before Iaijutsu, better remove it.
Meditate is not essential to the rotation, all you do is press it when you can't hit the boss, better remove it.
Hakaze is not essential to the rotation, all you do is press it before Jinpu, Shifu, and Yukikaze, better remove it.
Etc.

A line has to be drawn somewhere. Shallow justifications can be used to remove any skill in the game, that does not mean it is a good idea or that players should accept it.

I mean, I'd agree, but look at what happened to healers. Everything removed but 1 DoT, 1 attack button, and 1 AoE. And now it's been 2 expansions. We can say SCH's Core Rotation of using DoTs like Bio II + Miasma + Bane was essential to its DoT gameplay while healing, but now it just has became Broil IV spam and Art of War spam.

So... is Kaiten essential? While SAM preserves most of your core rotation and SCH lost everything besides just Energy Drain optimization? It's hard to say where that line is really drawn anymore.

If anything, it can get worse. Reduced to just Yukikaze spam.

[Reese_Clairdale]

Ultimately that is my point, there was never a line drawn at any time, but prior to 6.1 we were under the impression that there might have been. Job design across all roles has been questionable at best for a long while now, but there were jobs that were generally seen as "safe" from arbitrary decisions, particularly SAM and BLM. The changes to SAM don't just affect SAM, but set a precedent that no aspect of any job is safe, ever, under any circumstance. Don't waste time or emotional energy with ephemeral ideas like "My main job is X because I really enjoy ____ and ____, which makes me feel ____." Just play whatever is favored in any particular patch, because SE doesn't care either. Hell, maybe if enough people swap to BLM, they will decide to ruin that also.

[CelestiCer]

Essentially, did the changes improve Samurai? NO

Beyond merely Kaiten, from Tenka Goken nerf to Auto crits, FFXIV Essentially as a whole became worse to me. No matter what PvE content SE now creates from new Savage tier to Aglaia to new Dungeons, it's all diminished enjoyment regardless of how essentially or in our case non-essential any changes were that factually fixed nothing while it being completely unaddressed on top of it.

Rather Samurai suffers more or not to another Job is irrelevant. It's not a flaccid measuring contest and it shouldn't be treated as such. Anyone should just regard the negative Samurai changes as adding to the already long list of removed gameplay features of " fill in blank " gameplay of x y z job in the past. That is Essentially it.

[Kaseladen]

I mean, I'd agree, but look at what happened to healers. Everything removed but 1 DoT, 1 attack button, and 1 AoE. And now it's been 2 expansions. We can say SCH's Core Rotation of using DoTs like Bio II + Miasma + Bane was essential to its DoT gameplay while healing, but now it just has became Broil IV spam and Art of War spam.

So... is Kaiten essential? While SAM preserves most of your core rotation and SCH lost everything besides just Energy Drain optimization? It's hard to say where that line is really drawn anymore.

If anything, it can get worse. Reduced to just Yukikaze spam.

While I know its not your intention, I don't think "It can get worse" is an inspiration to draw from

[AsiTsurugi]

I mean, I'd agree, but look at what happened to healers. Everything removed but 1 DoT, 1 attack button, and 1 AoE. And now it's been 2 expansions. We can say SCH's Core Rotation of using DoTs like Bio II + Miasma + Bane was essential to its DoT gameplay while healing, but now it just has became Broil IV spam and Art of War spam.

So... is Kaiten essential? While SAM preserves most of your core rotation and SCH lost everything besides just Energy Drain optimization? It's hard to say where that line is really drawn anymore.

If anything, it can get worse. Reduced to just Yukikaze spam.

The point of this discussion thread is not a race to the bottom, rather to point out the hypocrisy and general lobotomized playstyle that incompetents like Yoshida and his "dev team" are capable of. It is also not a thread where we need to fight one another, pointing out how much worse one's condition is compared to the other; rather, we should be directing our criticism and indignation over the situation of the classes we love at the incompetents who ruined it.

[Ceridwen]

Depressing. Predictable, but still depressing. But what bothers me most is *no* response - none at all. No acknowledgement that this change was soundly disliked. So it really didn't matter that so many people came to this forum, where so many of us do not EVER want to go, because they trusted the 'we want your feedback.' It didn't matter that people gave long, thought out ideas on remedies and suggestions, in defense of a class they loved & no longer play. It feels futile, and maybe that's what game developers ultimately want. If so, bravo. I don't think I'll bother again. I'll just decide if I like the story enough to go on, if I like some other class enough - (which I currently do) - but I'll also remember this, and I won't trust that a job I now love is safe or can't be harmed. I don't suppose saying more will matter - but I want them to know I'll remember, and that I've lost a little faith. Maybe more than a little.

[Flashy]

Depressing. Predictable, but still depressing. But what bothers me most is *no* response - none at all. No acknowledgement that this change was soundly disliked. So it really didn't matter that so many people came to this forum, where so many of us do not EVER want to go, because they trusted the 'we want your feedback.' It didn't matter that people gave long, thought out ideas on remedies and suggestions, in defense of a class they loved & no longer play. It feels futile, and maybe that's what game developers ultimately want. If so, bravo. I don't think I'll bother again. I'll just decide if I like the story enough to go on, if I like some other class enough - (which I currently do) - but I'll also remember this, and I won't trust that a job I now love is safe or can't be harmed. I don't suppose saying more will matter - but I want them to know I'll remember, and that I've lost a little faith. Maybe more than a little.

I feel this to the core. I was a spoiled brat that started FFXIV in 5.4, so I got to experience a great version of SAM that I still miss and preferred over 6.0. I heard a lot of bad things about jobs being dumbed down in ShB, but it seemed like SAM was somewhat up there with BLM in terms of being safe from the bullshit

I was thinking of playing the maiming jobs but I feel like I'm playing them not because of I want to, but because I can't even look at SAM right now and just need to play something else.

Someone mentioned a good point about the developer notes in 6.2 balance changes. They might not be retroactive, so we may not get any information behind the design intent behind 6.1 SAM, or even have our feedback retrieved from the dumpster behind the building and looked at.

Oh well, I'll never find something as satisfying as SAM, but I also don't want to get this invested into another job where 4 months later, I'm still wondering what is happening since the devs just left us to speculate

[Quyn]

Welp, that's the end of that:

Consider my sub cancelled. What a god damn shame.

Does this mean you will also stop posting poorly reasoned opinions on this forum ? Please say yes.