Thread: RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

Originally Posted by Reese_Clairdale

snip.

Buddy, that is a great summary and Im well aware that it isnt just 5-7 people. I was alluding to the 5-7 people, going over board, in this particular thread.
Just as I wrote.

By the way, There are several interviews with Yoshi P, that do explain the removals. I recall digging them out then, it was quite a lot to read.
I recall them boiling down to creating new design space for the jobs future. I'll dig through my older posts, I think I shared it here before.

As for quitting and owing things :
SE doesn't owe us, to design the job exactly by our wishes, either. Its their game, their vision and their product.
They should want to align with the wishes of the type of player majority, they are aiming for, though. No question about that.

Personally, I never felt Kaiten as very engaging and would rather have a more interesting skill instead .
I bolded that one, to stress that I don't have certainty this is actually going to happen. Going by SE's track record, it would make sense but obviously we would all have that next patch, rather than next expansion. That is the intend, I took from the longer interviews I mentioned.

Originally Posted by Quyn

Buddy, that is a great summary and Im well aware that it isnt just 5-7 people. I was alluding to the 5-7 people, going over board, in this particular thread.
Just as I wrote.

By the way, There are several interviews with Yoshi P, that do explain the removals. I recall digging them out then, it was quite a lot to read.
I recall them boiling down to creating new design space for the jobs future. I'll dig through my older posts, I think I shared it here before.

As for quitting and owing things :
SE doesn't owe us, to design the job exactly by our wishes, either. Its their game, their vision and their product.
They should want to align with the wishes of the type of player majority, they are aiming for, though. No question about that.

Personally, I never felt Kaiten as very engaging and would rather have a more interesting skill instead .
I bolded that one, to stress that I don't have certainty this is actually going to happen. Going by SE's track record, it would make sense but obviously we would all have that next patch, rather than next expansion. That is the intend, I took from the longer interviews I mentioned.

That's a great argument and another Excuse " Future Changes ".

Great... so where is it? Where are these great better improved more engaging changes anyone speaks of? Empty promises. The answer is " No where ". Probably down the empty promise barrel with more WHM attacks other then Glare and the SMN removed Dots as well as NIN old trick attack and DRK's Darkarts. If you never felt Kaiten engaging that's great, but it was what held our kenki gauge back from being just a spammable Shinten Gauge here's our engaging Gauge now and let me simplify it...

Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten

As for what they said in every interview, it's future changes. 5 months now nothing, and no response other then

• Button Bloat which is debunked
• Action Bloat which was a presumed mistranslation also debunked
• DPS variance, which never held anyone back to clearing content also a bs excuse
• Job ease of access, again also a bs excuse Samurai never had issues clearing anything

And Future changes excuse that amounts to nothing for 5 months now, well we're going into 6 months soon so again with negative feedback ignored so yeah... the Hopium and Copium is at an all time low.

So as much as you want to misrepresent our feedback in a negative light that it doesn't matter, and misrepresent the Dev's and SE's non Reponses btw as them responding to us and not ignoring feedback? you really need to come up with a better case of " hearsay "

Originally Posted by CelestiCer

That's a great argument and another Excuse " Future Changes ".

Great... so where is it? Where are these great better improved more engaging changes anyone speaks of? Empty promises. The answer is " No where ". Probably down the empty promise barrel with more WHM attacks other then Glare and the SMN removed Dots as well as NIN old trick attack and DRK's Darkarts. If you never felt Kaiten engaging that's great, but it was what held our kenki gauge back from being just a spammable Shinten Gauge here's our engaging Gauge now and let me simplify it...

Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten Shinten

As for what they said in every interview, it's future changes. 5 months now nothing, and no response other then

• Button Bloat which is debunked
• Action Bloat which was a presumed mistranslation also debunked
• DPS variance, which never held anyone back to clearing content also a bs excuse
• Job ease of access, again also a bs excuse Samurai never had issues clearing anything

And Future changes excuse that amounts to nothing for 5 months now, well we're going into 6 months soon so again with negative feedback ignored so yeah... the Hopium and Copium is at an all time low.

So as much as you want to misrepresent our feedback in a negative light that it doesn't matter, and misrepresent the Dev's and SE's non Reponses btw as them responding to us and not ignoring feedback? you really need to come up with a better case of " hearsay "

It isn't an excuse. Its my personal reasoning for not going crazy over it. Its fine if you dont have trust or patience for that, I understand, life is short.
So go on, keep posting, keep being angry.

Originally Posted by Quyn

It isn't an excuse. Its my personal reasoning for not going crazy over it. Its fine if you dont have trust or patience for that, I understand, life is short.
So go on, keep posting, keep being angry.

You posted a debunked interview where Yoshi admits that big hits is the reason Samurai's gameplay is fun, which he admits to taking away with Auto-Crits which he then falsely admits would increase our DPS performance. That's not true, it just fluctuates less and also destroys Crit Synergy which is a nerf. Not to mention them forgetting to copy paste that to Tenka Goken since they nerfed its potency which remains unaddressed.

So while it can be your personal opinion, it genuinely is the Dev's words - Future changes - which we expected to be addressed way before 5 months of negative feedback yes which they been dodging like the plague, which you seem to ignore again. I'll start honestly viewing your Forum account as an Alt Samurai who doesn't main Samurai and just wants to troll the forums on an Alt account after ignoring valid points and argument points and dismissing them and misrepresenting both sides for over 6 posts... but i'd be tinfoiling right?

It's actually I would say... impressive to be this... lets go with " Special ".

Originally Posted by CelestiCer

You posted a debunked interview where Yoshi admits that big hits is the reason Samurai's gameplay is fun, which he admits to taking away with Auto-Crits which he then falsely admits would increase our DPS performance. That's not true, it just fluctuates less and also destroys Crit Synergy which is a nerf. Not to mention them forgetting to copy paste that to Tenka Goken since they nerfed its potency which remains unaddressed.

So while it can be your personal opinion, it genuinely is the Dev's words - Future changes - which we expected to be addressed way before 5 months of negative feedback yes which they been dodging like the plague, which you seem to ignore again. I'll start honestly viewing your Forum account as an Alt Samurai who doesn't main Samurai and just wants to troll the forums on an Alt account after ignoring valid points and argument points and dismissing them and misrepresenting both sides for over 6 posts... but i'd be tinfoiling right?

It's actually I would say... impressive to be this... lets go with " Special ".

Im sorry, howl ong have you been playing ffxiv for ? this comment of "we expect within 5 months" just isnt in line, with somebody who knows, how long such changes take over here.
As mentioned, thats it for me, go pester somebody else with that garbage attitude.

Originally Posted by Quyn

Fine, ill bite. one last time...

I'm not imposing anything on you. I am telling you that going by past experiences, that such changes historically take much longer in FFXIV.
You think this is bad ? Brother, there have been much worse cases of messed up class design or balances, in the past. Kaiten is a joke in comparison.

And that concludes our little exchange. I dont expect you will last in this game but who cares ? Doesnt WoW have an expansion soon ? You'd fit in there very well.

Sister btw. Secondly, I never played WoW and it's visual aesthetics aren't appealing enough for me to ever try. Lastly, you been ignoring again before and after saying your goodbye's to the thread on... read carefully...

SE & DEVS NOT RESPONDING TO THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK
I made sure it's like really big so you can not miss it, I am generous like that <3

So not about them reverting or fixing which btw would please a lot of players that don't sniff glue... Responding to the Negative feedback they been ignoring for yes 5 months. It's a tiny-bit different then " the Revert argument would take a billion dollar company to long " cause of scarce resources of employees I am totally sure... but response takes 5 months? We even made a meme list on 30 changes and issues they been addressing in between 6.1 Sam negative changes till now.

I'll post them perhaps if you want to go another round of... whatever it is were doing. Honestly this is just entertainment at this point, like playing with food, or P4S

Originally Posted by Quyn

Personally, I never felt Kaiten as very engaging and would rather have a more interesting skill instead .
I bolded that one, to stress that I don't have certainty this is actually going to happen. Going by SE's track record, it would make sense but obviously we would all have that next patch, rather than next expansion. That is the intend, I took from the longer interviews I mentioned.

That's fine by me but why should I have to wait 2 years for my job to potentially not be kneecapped again. Going by SE's recent track record we're never going to get anything back.
They could have literally nothing at all and then rolled changes in 7.0 along with a new expac and none would be here complaining.

Originally Posted by Hezhi

That's fine by me but why should I have to wait 2 years for my job to potentially not be kneecapped again. Going by SE's recent track record we're never going to get anything back.
They could have literally nothing at all and then rolled changes in 7.0 along with a new expac and none would be here complaining.

Yes, sadly right on the money with that point, I cannot argue at all.
I expect there is a reason for that but that doesn't make it acceptable.

Originally Posted by Quyn

Yes, sadly right on the money with that point, I cannot argue at all.
I expect there is a reason for that but that doesn't make it acceptable.

A lot of why people are mad is because of that. They put it out there, they told people to "please try it and leave feedback". We did that. 6.1 released... 4/12, and the live letter was... 8/12. So, exactly 4 months apart that they've had feedback from us. Not even counting the lead up to 6.1 with people telling them to not implement the changes due to how bad they felt to play (you could play the job without using kaiten before to get a feel of it.)

Over the span of that 4 months, nothing. Zip. Nada. Not once have they said "yeah, we hear you", which took me all of 3 seconds at most to type. Probably another minute to put it out there due to finishing this post. We've been provided reasons for the changes, but that was literally before the patch went in and it also came with "please try it". They've had time to gather data over that span of 4 months, and even had to panic buff pieces in the rotation because a meme rotation that almost ignored two parts of it was objectively competitive to the developer intended rotation. To me that screams "poorly thought out" changes. You can argue that they wanted us to test it, but they have access to the same damage logs that we the players do. If the devs are struggling to figure out things that people in the Balance can figure out, then they need to expand the team and internal testing.

People may think when we're talking about their changes, we're acting disrespectful. Thing is, it's a two way street. You don't treat someone like an idiot and expect them to help you later down the road. If SE gave us the same attention they did when black mage was having its pvp thing (literally changes were explained within a DAY), then people would be a bit less upset. Being ignored and lied to tend to make people angry, and if being nice doesn't get someone's attention, more crude responses are going to be the follow up.

Second post because 3000 characters per post, lolol.

That being said, if they wanted to remove kaiten, this whole situation could've been handled better, end of story. The timing for it is hilariously bad, the fact that they couldn't settle on a reason is another thing and are (maybe?) giving an actual reason on the 23rd is another. The fact that they had to spend time panic fixing their changes too, again, shows how ill thought out they were. And lastly, what problem they hoped to fix with the changes. None of us really see the problem because samurai wasn't overperforming in its role, nor was it massively underperforming. Its burst windows were high, but whether they were god-tier bursts or meh bursts, didn't change whether you could complete the encounter successfully. You could already see because of the backlash the reworks for ast and drg were pushed back to 7.0. And if they wanted to rework samurai (rather than kneecap the job now), they should've waited till 7.0. And as someone pointed out, I don't want to wait 2 years for potential fixes. We can look at the state of healers and see how long they've been waiting for something more than just 1-2-1-1-1-1-1 for however long till you have to refresh your dot. Doesn't instill much confidence.