Thread: RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

You can advocate for whatever you want, but it's always going to be a balancing act. If the reward : effort ratio on your job becomes too high, it becomes saturated with players and it's just awful for everyone who plays it. If you're good at what you do, other players will still respect you for playing an objectively weaker job at a higher skill level, and there's nothing more satisfying than outperforming someone else on a job that you theoretically shouldn't be able to. That's why it's actually to your advantage to play something with barriers to entry that's also slightly underpowered, so long as you're in striking range of the top. I'm just pointing out that SAM is falling into the exact same trap that WAR did, and history has a way of repeating itself.

Originally Posted by Lyth

You can advocate for whatever you want, but it's always going to be a balancing act. If the reward : effort ratio on your job becomes too high, it becomes saturated with players and it's just awful for everyone who plays it.

Dodging my factual statistics argument aside, now it goes into " Reward: Effort Ratio being to High ". Let me unpack this...

Are you Implying... because Samurai enjoyment is way to high for its Effort to Reward ratio it's Fun... being to Good!? it requires to be worse so that it's fun for everyone!?

What is this argument point what, you... you lost me what...

Here's a better take if that's the argument point... why not make every Job more fun, better, easier barrier of entry and Complex for skill expression to please any type of player between Casual to dedicated High-End? What even is...what am I reading!? what the ...hail...

Please tell me this is a joke... your job is to fun, there for it needs to be worse for others to have fun...that's your comeback? holy crap...

I need to touch some water and eat some grass

No, that's obviously not it. Because you're clearly not enjoying yourself on SAM at present, as you've made most of this subforum aware by this point.

'Reward' here means the amount of damage you do for the effort you put in. If anyone can do what you do and reproduce your high damage result, then nobody values your work. And then the job becomes saturated with mediocre players. If you're skilled at your job, you want to maintain that barrier to entry so that what you do remains unique, while simultaneously being able to make an impact that your team can value you for. It's about thinking about the long term rather than the short term, and knowing when to ask for buffs.

Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Dodging my factual statistics argument aside, now it goes into " Reward: Effort Ratio being to High ". Let me unpack this...

Are you Implying... because Samurai enjoyment is way to high for its Effort to Reward ratio it's Fun... being to Good!? it requires to be worse so that it's fun for everyone!?

What is this argument point what, you... you lost me what...

Here's a better take if that's the argument point... why not make every Job more fun, better, easier barrier of entry and Complex for skill expression to please any type of player between Casual to dedicated High-End? What even is...what am I reading!? what the ...hail...

Please tell me this is a joke... your job is to fun, there for it needs to be worse for others to have fun...that's your comeback? holy crap...

I need to touch some water and eat some grass

I believe Lyth is saying that due to the fact the job performs so well and is easy to pick up, that of course it's going to be played often. They aren't refuting a point about subjectivity to SAM specifically.

Though I only skimmed the conversation, so maybe I'm missing something, but I'll leave that to y'all to debate.

Shame they show no sign of giving back kaiten and undoing the potency nerfs.
I was considering swapping to sam if they gave it back since I am ditching healing the rest of this expansion.

Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Shame they show no sign of giving back kaiten and undoing the potency nerfs.
I was considering swapping to sam if they gave it back since I am ditching healing the rest of this expansion.

We'll find out what they're gonna do this Friday. There's no way they ignore talking about SAM again right? :copium:

Originally Posted by Reese_Clairdale

I would say these statements are in direct opposition.

Inevitably some people will find the new SAM tolerable or even enjoyable, but this isn't good for the overall health of the game, especially where playstyle diversity is concerned. 6.1 SAM has the least amount of Samurai flavor than at any other point in time.

If people want to play the quick unrelenting striker with moderate potency per hit, MNK has been available since 1.0, which is precisely why SAM does in fact need a revert before any more changes that trend towards homogeneity are made.

I don't see your point. I enjoy both so contradictory = bad?
new sam is nothing like monk even at lower levels, it feels unique to itself. sam has never felt like a different job besides directional attacks.

Originally Posted by smol_cofe

new sam is nothing like monk even at lower levels, it feels unique to itself. sam has never felt like a different job besides directional attacks.

SAM's first Kenki spender is now Shinten (Lv.52 oGCD direct damage) rather than Kaiten (Lv.52 oGCD buff used on your hardest hitting GCDs, you know, the ones "you focus on building up to attack"?) This fundamentally makes it more like MNK, whose first Chakra gauge spender is now Lv.15 oGCD direct damage. Even SAM's positional attacks used to boost Kenki gain rather than affecting potency directly, once again making it more like other jobs. On the flip side, MNK has also been made more like SAM, given a mechanic at Lv.60 that boils down to collecting stickers to unleash high potency attacks.

Whether or not you enjoy the new gameplay styles, it is undeniable that these jobs have been made more like each other, especially at lower levels. My point is that if changes like this keep being made then every job will eventually be the same.

And yes, contradictory = bad. I don't understand how someone can grasp SAM's appeal while simultaneously being apathetic to the erosion of its identity. All you are going to achieve is confusing and frustrating anybody that engages with you.