LIVE Letter Regarding DRG & AST Postponed Reworks

[Shurrikhan]

What I really don't want is for LotD (and DRG in general) to be turned into Enshroud 2.0 or a RPR with oGCDs

If the difference between "LotD" and "DRG-Enshroud" is, as you've posited in the thread you linked, whether the state ends after you've used the 3 Nostrand casts and Stardiver --and the only difference between that and the current version is that you don't lose the ability to queue the post-LotD Gierskogul-- I have to wonder why that would matter.

If LotD actually had some passive benefit over its duration or returned to a HW-BotD-like mechanic whereby you want to maintain it as long as would allow you to spend the absolute minimum amount of duration/resource on your final Nostrand cast, I could see why you'd want to protect LotD's duration, but... LotD has no benefits outside of access to Nostrand. (Which, as I mentioned there, would benefit DRG's flow, through the ability to queue the follow Geirskogul, if you just had LotD end after it has consumed all its benefits.)

Another example would be to let Dragonfire Dive unlock a stronger attack (perhaps a GCD with range?) like Bunshin does with Phantom Kamaitachi.

Not against this, but wouldn't this ultimately just feel like Mirage BiggerDragon? Is there a way this could be used, in DRG's wider context, to improve kit interaction, or add theme/cohesion to surrounding systems?

While secondary actions (B unlocked by A during A's CD, such that B requires no additional buttons) do improve button efficiency and increase APM, it would seem a waste to have no further benefit there.

Something they could do is allow the 5th positional hit in the combo to turn into a new weaponskill that gives some kind of resource similar to MNK Nadi: you choose which 5th to use (WT would turn into Drachenlance and FnC into Gnash and Lash only in that position, they stay the same when they're in 4th position), and each gives a different resource that when combined allow you to use a specific attack depending on the combination or give you some kind of buff that changes/enhances specific GCDs/oGCDs.

This sounds pretty damn neat. More animation variance, and finally they'd look like they deserve the added 5th position punch of Lance Mastery II.

[Aco505]

If the difference between "LotD" and "DRG-Enshroud" is, as you've posited in the thread you linked, whether the state ends after you've used the 3 Nostrand casts and Stardiver --and the only difference between that and the current version is that you don't lose the ability to queue the post-LotD Gierskogul-- I have to wonder why that would matter.

If LotD actually had some passive benefit over its duration or returned to a HW-BotD-like mechanic whereby you want to maintain it as long as would allow you to spend the absolute minimum amount of duration/resource on your final Nostrand cast, I could see why you'd want to protect LotD's duration, but... LotD has no benefits outside of access to Nostrand. (Which, as I mentioned there, would benefit DRG's flow, through the ability to queue the follow Geirskogul, if you just had LotD end after it has consumed all its benefits.)

Having LotD end right after using the 3rd NAS is Enshroud 2.0 and that is bad because instead of working with LotD's timer in some way, this would just make it RPR 2.0. I can easily picture us having the ability to pool 4 eyes or the like for a double LotD in a row. At that moment, you wonder what's the difference between jobs besides the animations.

GSK being unqueueable could be fixed by removing its cooldown, but allowing it to be used only with two eyes. Something would have to be given to DRG so that the opener is not missing a button, but that could ease rigidity (as well as a longer Litany), since the only oGCD that would require hard use on cooldown would be HJ. As long as they increase the skill ceiling somewhere else, I'd be fine with this.

Another option would be to have some use to the LotD timer in a similar way to Enochian or old GSK in Heavensward, where it consumed the BotD timer that you built with positionals.

However, yes, LotD should have more interaction with the rest of the kit. It could buff our GCDs, give them a different animation, whatever. I want our kit to evolve, not turn into a mechanic or gauge that is almost a copy of another job, and RPR tends to be the main comparison.

These are just some ideas, I'm sure there could be better ones, but anything that makes LotD/DRG a copy of Enshroud/RPR or any other job is going to reduce the uniqueness of DRG.

Not against this, but wouldn't this ultimately just feel like Mirage BiggerDragon? Is there a way this could be used, in DRG's wider context, to improve kit interaction, or add theme/cohesion to surrounding systems?

While secondary actions (B unlocked by A during A's CD, such that B requires no additional buttons) do improve button efficiency and increase APM, it would seem a waste to have no further benefit there.

Just an idea, could be something else like, for example, an oGCD combo: Dragonfire Dive increases the potency of/modifies a specific oGCD. It could also grant two scales, or if following my suggestion of turning Life Surge into a weaponskill a la Sonic Break/Soul Slice with two charges that grant a scale, DFD could return one or two of these charges, increasing the use of this action during bursts and creating more GCD/oGCD interaction.

My point is that DFD feels good aesthetically but weak otherwise for a 120s capstone ability. It has to hit harder and/or have a role of its own.

[Shurrikhan]

Having LotD end right after using the 3rd NAS is Enshroud 2.0 and that is bad because instead of working with LotD's timer in some way, this would just make it RPR 2.0.

You'd still need it to be held for Stardiver (i.e., until one has consumed ALL the benefits of LotD) regardless, but so long as those benefits are more than just the 3 NAS and 1 Stardiver, then sure, having a fixed duration would make sense. Otherwise, though, it's just an awkward obfuscation.

Personally, I'd probably most enjoy returning to the HW BotD design there.

My point is that DFD feels good aesthetically but weak otherwise for a 120s capstone ability. It has to hit harder and/or have a role of its own.

It's not particularly weak for a level 50 skill, though, which does indeed give good reason to simply augment it later via a trait or follow-up skill.

my suggestion of turning Life Surge into a weaponskill

Personally, I much prefer that Life Surge is not something we hit on CD and has had, depending on SkS tiers, different optimal attachments by which to get the most bonus value per average minute out of the skill, so I'm not fond of that idea, especially as I don't think DRG's APM is remotely excessive and replacing oGCDs with GCDs would reduce APM.

I'd be cool with LS granting a bonus Scale, especially if Scales were increased only to a max of 3 such that one still has to be mindful of the scales to be generated within a LS-using combo, but I like it being a slightly less straightforward oGCD, and would prefer its CD be tuned to provide it more options in practice across viable SkS tiers.

That said, because normal LS may want to be used later in the opener than DFD, having DFD grant a charge of LS might be a bit awkward. On the other hand, if DFD were empowered by Scale-granting hits or Dragon weaponskills or the like, up to a point, and thus already had reason to be delayed, it'd have less conflict, but DFD would also feel less responsive, etc., etc., so it may be better just to leave burstyjob's burstyskill without prior attachments/constraints, be they direct or indirect.