To Tanks Who only pull One Mob at a Time......

[IkaraGreydancer]

I am personally aware of cases where people have received warnings, and even 3 day bans for YPYT. You pretty much have to openly admit to what you are doing in chat to establish motive, but it is definitely seen as MPK in the eyes of the GMs.


Motive is important. YPYT seeks to intentionally undermine the efficacy of the entire party for 'revenge' against someone you feel has 'overstepped'. Pulling as a DPS is because someone wants the party to clear faster and be more efficient. One of these things is inherently malicious, the other is not.

In cases like those I don't to much care about a GMs judgment. You can't exactly claim YPYT just seeks to undermine a group when it could just be people who rather stick to their own pace which isn't malicious at at. GMs punishing that is basically them saying "were gonna punish you because you didn't give in to being forced to do more than you may be comfy with" and thats backwards.

Also can't claim DPS pulling are doing it for the party as how exactly do we know this? I've only ever seen 1 dps pull ahead while me and the other dps focus on what the tank actually pulled. In that vein to me it seems like that dps is only concerned with clearing fast for themselves as they often dip from dungeons right away when it's finished without saying a word.

It's amazing how bent out of shape folks get if they have to spend just a few extra minutes doing something. Reporting for this this petty is ridiculous ESPECIALLY when "you NEVER encounter it if you never pull ahead ". It's LITERALLY an issue you can avoid

[BaconBits]

You know you're in a patch lull when the age old Tank pull thread rears it's ugly head again.

[NekoMataMata]

I love watching people defend this behavior. If you're in a level 60+ dungeon, you should be W2Wing. You're not new to the game anymore and you should have tomestome gear for whatever X0 level range you're in. That is good enough to W2W. It might not be easy but it's doable.

Now if there's a problem such as DPS not doing their jobs or the healer not being able to keep up, then after you wipe once, you can start single pulling, but until there's an issue, assume the best. Random note, but the whole blame game could be avoided if we just added DPS and healing meters into the game so after things go wrong we can actually know what went wrong above all else.

Also I find it funny how many people are defending tanks right now above all else. Tanks can be awful, healers can be awful, but I've been raged at more as a healer for things out of my control than I have as a tank. Tanks have the one little benefit of most DPS not knowing what have the mitigation icons look like, so when you run into a tank that doesn't mitigate a lot of DPS have no clue and you take the blame by default.

All other things aside, for the most part most tanks that single pull in 60+ dungeons so obscenely bad I question if they're trying. I had this tank in a level 80 dungeon earlier single pulling and they couldn't even grab aggro immediately. Myself and the dps were taking stray hits from the mobs for way too long before they'd pick them up, during a single pull. And let's not even mention the amount of vuln stacks they were collecting. I know what you're thinking. Should a tank like that W2W? The answer is obviously no, but if we're being honest a tank like that should be sticking to playing with trusts instead.

The bar is pretty low here.

[Haventale]

Well it’s pretty rare that I see a single-pulling tank, but regardless of anything, my general advice is:

1) If someone isn’t being mean, then there’s no reason to be upset. They haven’t actually done anything wrong.
2) You don’t really have a right to criticize someone playing a role you didn’t queue as. If you wanted that role to play a certain way, you should have queued as that yourself.
3) It’s not the tank’s fault healer gameplay is designed the way it is. Blame SE if you’re bored, not the tank. They didn’t make you player healer, you chose to.
4) Remember you’re the one who chose to queue with randoms. Nobody made you do that, that was your choice to accept getting literally any possible kind of player in this game. Maybe you should learn to accept the potential outcomes of your decisions.

[TaleraRistain]

Well it’s pretty rare that I see a single-pulling tank, but regardless of anything, my general advice is:

1) If someone isn’t being mean, then there’s no reason to be upset. They haven’t actually done anything wrong.
2) You don’t really have a right to criticize someone playing a role you didn’t queue as. If you wanted that role to play a certain way, you should have queued as that yourself.
3) It’s not the tank’s fault healer gameplay is designed the way it is. Blame SE if you’re bored, not the tank. They didn’t make you player healer, you chose to.
4) Remember you’re the one who chose to queue with randoms. Nobody made you do that, that was your choice to accept getting literally any possible kind of player in this game. Maybe you should learn to accept the potential outcomes of your decisions.

This

Especially #4. You wouldn't go into a nightclub expecting to not pay a cover charge. The cover charge for Duty Roulette is that you can get absolutely anything. And if you want to succeed, you do what's necessary to make it work or leave like an adult if that makeup just isn't going to succeed. We used to have to queue for this solo (at least Leveling). SE gave us a way to control our experience. We can take premade groups in that completely fit our expectations. Otherwise, we're tacitly agreeing that we're giving up that control in favor of letting the system match us.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Well it’s pretty rare that I see a single-pulling tank, but regardless of anything, my general advice is:

1) If someone isn’t being mean, then there’s no reason to be upset. They haven’t actually done anything wrong.
2) You don’t really have a right to criticize someone playing a role you didn’t queue as. If you wanted that role to play a certain way, you should have queued as that yourself.
3) It’s not the tank’s fault healer gameplay is designed the way it is. Blame SE if you’re bored, not the tank. They didn’t make you player healer, you chose to.
4) Remember you’re the one who chose to queue with randoms. Nobody made you do that, that was your choice to accept getting literally any possible kind of player in this game. Maybe you should learn to accept the potential outcomes of your decisions.

Post of the year.

[TaleraRistain]

When we use the random matching system in the game, then we're going to get players with a wide variety of styles, experience, and abilities. Those tanks are pulling the way that is comfortable. As a healer, I never ask to pull more. I tell them I have their back if they want to try, but I am good at whatever pace they set. I've had many take me up on the offer, because they know there won't be any vitriol coming from me about their style. Everyone likes to go on about this being a team-based game. Well, teams know how to cooperate and shore each other's weak points up.

Also, if the issue is *only* the pull size, then the mobs die just as fast on small pulls as large pulls. I've never in 8 years seen a run delayed by just a tank who pulled smaller groups. We melt those small groups, especially if I'm able to dps more with less healing needed. If a run is taking twice as long, there's a problem somewhere else. Most likely it's low dps, either from dps who wouldn't be able to handle large pulls anyway or others not trying because they're salty that the tank is pulling smaller groups.

[NekoMataMata]

When we use the random matching system in the game, then we're going to get players with a wide variety of styles, experience, and abilities. Those tanks are pulling the way that is comfortable.

Not that I have because I always keep my mouth shut and put up with whatever non-sense I have to deal with but...

Is there something wrong from suggesting that tanks that won't pull more than one mob stick to trusts or their friends? W2W is the norm, the average decided upon by the community. If you want to forgo what is expected by the other three potential members of your party, then perhaps you should play with friends who are either okay with it, or trusts that will switch to your playstyle?

The main reason YTYP was a thing wasn't because people were concerned for the tank. It was because it was an easy way to figure out the pace of the dungeon instead of having people vote among their parties or argue over it. At the least, if you insist on pulling one set of mobs at a time you should warn people at the beginning of a dungeon so they can leave prior to figuring out that you insist on tanking one at a time through the entire dungeon.

[TaleraRistain]

Is there something wrong from suggesting that tanks that won't pull more than one mob stick to trusts or their friends? W2W is the norm, the average decided upon by the community. If you want to forgo what is expected by the other three potential members of your party, then perhaps you should play with friends who are either okay with it, or trusts that will switch to your playstyle?

Yes. Where are you going to draw the line? You say everyone has to cater to the average decided upon by the "community" but we're not one homogenous group with a hivemind. There are a variety of opinions. A lot of people might do wall to wall but I certainly don't see that in every run. I also don't always see single puling tanks in every run without wall to wall. Sometimes there's a mid-way. Where do you draw the line there in who needs to stick to Trusts?

The general trend I see in the majority of parties is that we work together to do what's necessary to finish the run. If someone engages in lone wolf behavior, then that is what causes the most problems and those are the people I more often see kicked. Often it's not the small pulling tank who no one has has a problem with, but the dps or healer who pull other stuff and wipe us. Or get nasty and toxic in chat. The rest of us aren't there for drama. We just want to get through the run.

And what happens when this so-called average changes? The reason I advocate for working together and working with what you have is that this variety in random matching is never going to go away. This is something that exists in all MMOs. And the more resistant someone is to just setting aside their ego about what they think others should do and just adjust to what they get, the more problems they're going to have. Will you end up carrying sometimes? Yep. Chalk it up to being an awesome player and take the win that you're the team MVP.

[Bobby66]

If we are being honest, tank AoE is enough to mass pull Sastasha and many early level dungeons. Sure it might require the healer to spam heals, but it is very much possible. Now it is quicker or easier? That is a different question.

In most cases I have found if you have single pull tank, if you pull for them and make sure to bring them back most will do their aoe combo and call it a day. Very rarely do you run into the tab target single target rotation tank to avoid the adds, since sooner or later the healer will get the aggro. DPS have enough sustain to hold out till then in most cases.