2 minute burst rotation meta has negatively impacted combat

[Ruminous]

It was the only way I could get over my muscle memory. Eventually I took it out of the kaiten spot, but initially it was the best way for me to slowly move away from that muscle memory on my rotation.

Still playing it, that's some dedication. I did the first week of DSR and P4S as a samurai and dropped it like a bad habit soon after. Going from 27 to 59 shinten uses...Ugh.

[Ransu]

Still playing it, that's some dedication. I did the first week of DSR and P4S as a samurai and dropped it like a bad habit soon after. Going from 27 to 59 shinten uses...Ugh.

I just didn't feel like gearing another job. I guess I could have played mnk, but I don't really like how they play either ATM. I'm waiting for the next tier to swap depending on what my static wants to do. Some want to move to different roles so I'm leveling getting my BLM and WAR up to level 90. I might level gunbreaker too just to see how it feels at 90, but I've never played GNB while I have played WAR in the past. PLD aesthetic is great.....but its really boring to play.

[Marxam]

The changes just comes off as "we don't trust the playerbase to git gud so we'll just nerf everything" There's a fine balance between making every job viable and not making them cookie cutters. Imo 4.0 was the first and last expansion to achieve both. Sure some jobs had downsides but for the most part that was just due to questionable job design. Like why did MNK have a move which removed your GL stacks and slowed your gcd for miniscule dmg? Regardless I think we will further see vitriol in the future in addition to more homogenization if they lock all jobs to the 1-2 min bursts.

What you will see is ppl who don't know how to maximize burst windows fall behind and be excluded. They've ironically added more pressure to perform because now you HAVE to do your burst correctly since everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time. At least before you could get away with the notion that my job doesn't fit into every burst window but now there is no excuse. Couple with the fact that parsing is becoming more prevalent, this design choice is going to bite them in the rear sooner rather than later. The return of "skip soar" is drawing near and the devs have no one to blame but themselves for turning every job into a dps.

[Ruminous]

The changes just comes off as "we don't trust the playerbase to git gud so we'll just nerf everything" There's a fine balance between making every job viable and not making them cookie cutters. Imo 4.0 was the first and last expansion to achieve both. Sure some jobs had downsides but for the most part that was just due to questionable job design. Like why did MNK have a move which removed your GL stacks and slowed your gcd for miniscule dmg? Regardless I think we will further see vitriol in the future in addition to more homogenization if they lock all jobs to the 1-2 min bursts.

What you will see is ppl who don't know how to maximize burst windows fall behind and be excluded. They've ironically added more pressure to perform because now you HAVE to do your burst correctly since everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time. At least before you could get away with the notion that my job doesn't fit into every burst window but now there is no excuse. Couple with the fact that parsing is becoming more prevalent, this design choice is going to bite them in the rear sooner rather than later. The return of "skip soar" is drawing near and the devs have no one to blame but themselves for turning every job into a dps.

Hey, like you said, if the devs don't trust people to git gud and just nerf everything, it does make the burst easier to do. I'd rather they stop dumbing down jobs mind you. People can and will still find ways to fail at them, and that's what amuses and scares me more.

[Shikiseki]

Hey, like you said, if the devs don't trust people to git gud and just nerf everything, it does make the burst easier to do. I'd rather they stop dumbing down jobs mind you. People can and will still find ways to fail at them, and that's what amuses and scares me more.

as if having everything align to 2minute burst would stop people making mistakes and keep them from dying. If anything, missing the 2min burst window and rotation for whatever reason, you're basically lost for the remainder of the encounter as nothing will sync up anymore unless you save your entire rotation and skills by not using them...

battle dynamics have been gone sadly and it's charge system on the wrong abilities have been nothing but a detriment to this battle system ever since

[LeonKeyh]

as if having everything align to 2minute burst would stop people making mistakes and keep them from dying. If anything, missing the 2min burst window and rotation for whatever reason, you're basically lost for the remainder of the encounter as nothing will sync up anymore unless you save your entire rotation and skills by not using them...

battle dynamics have been gone sadly and it's charge system on the wrong abilities have been nothing but a detriment to this battle system ever since

"Wrong" abilities? I think they've done a fairly "ok" job at giving abilities charges; Not "great" just "ok" but I'm interested in knowing which abilities have actually been a detriment.


Is the goal here to remove group-wide temporary buffs? I feel like any time you have those, there's going to be a "best" way of using them which means "right away" or "hold until X." Or, I was a pretty serious raider in Everquest 2 and they had certain buffs that didn't matter too much when you used them. Namely, a buff that did a flat amount of damage every time you hit something. Is that the answer? The burst windows are how they are because of the exponential increase of the buffs that are being used. If it were, instead, a flat potency per hit that would cause SkS/SpS to be more powerful than it is. That's the only way I can see "fixing" the burst window stuff.

I definitely agree though, the burst window game play is kinda "eh" and it causes so many issues (but, giving charges to gap closers has helped that....very very little...) It's interesting to a certain point because you're rewarded for not drifting, but I feel like you're punished a little too much for drifting everything, AND you punish other people a little too much.

[Shikiseki]

"Wrong" abilities? I think they've done a fairly "ok" job at giving abilities charges; Not "great" just "ok" but I'm interested in knowing which abilities have actually been a detriment.
.

it's mostly those attack abilities that you'd otherwise have to use on cooldown in your rotation to not waste their usage.
That save up everything to unleash every 2minute gameplay style is ok on a select few jobs but at this point, every job feels like that - charges just amplify that. It starts at even something as plainly as the AST draw ability. I get that it was to make it more lenient in case you forget to draw but now it's draw 3 times in a batch with nothing but malefics in between.
Charges to Celestial Intersection as a counter example is useful enough to keep one usage just in case of a double buster.

And I could name an example for almost every other job at this point.

[Ruminous]

as if having everything align to 2minute burst would stop people making mistakes and keep them from dying. If anything, missing the 2min burst window and rotation for whatever reason, you're basically lost for the remainder of the encounter as nothing will sync up anymore unless you save your entire rotation and skills by not using them...

battle dynamics have been gone sadly and it's charge system on the wrong abilities have been nothing but a detriment to this battle system ever since

Trust me I'm fully aware. I did say people still will find ways to fail, even if jobs are relegated to one button presses.

[Marxam]

Hey, like you said, if the devs don't trust people to git gud and just nerf everything, it does make the burst easier to do. I'd rather they stop dumbing down jobs mind you. People can and will still find ways to fail at them, and that's what amuses and scares me more.

Honestly those ppl need to be left behind. These are the same ppl who will find a way to fall on the floor when they are already laying flat on the floor. It's harsh but at a certain point you have to choose who to please and prioritize. The casual subs that only play for a month or two, or the whales that sub full time and buy the merch and cash shop items without asking questions. You can't do both, especially with their limited resources and I know they have limited resources because simple things like bots on PF where you have names, what they are "selling" and misusing the "leveling" tags to be a the top of the list are rampant in the game.

[Hezhi]

It's harsh but at a certain point you have to choose who to please and prioritize.

It's not being harsh, it's common sense, the vast majority of these people don't get better because they don't need to, and more importantly, they don't care (and thats fine).