2 minute burst rotation meta has negatively impacted combat

[Avenheit]

Forcing all classes to "synergize" with this 2 minute burst rotation thing Square as pushed, has honestly made combat not as engaging as Shadowbringers was.

I don't know what else to say lol.

I'm not saying the game is bad. I still love FF14. It's just a shame to see the current meta.

After the SAM changes, whenever you see "Adjustments for X class(s)". It has instilled MASS worry within the community and Square really needs to acknowledge just how scared everyone is.

And I believe a huge issue is because of the forced burst meta. It'll only impact classes in the future.

My current main is RPR and they've stated it's "overtuned". Well, I can only assume in 7.0 - and with their current adjustment track record...RPR is in trouble. We saw it with GNB where it was fantastic in ShB but a chore to play in EW (third shell was a mistake)

[xAFROx]

Let's not forget that the devs had stated at one point before that they don't want to lock everything to a specific burst window meta as that would be, in their words, "boring". Kind of funny to start seeing changes go in the very directions they once said they didn't want to do because of a belief it would negatively impact the playerbase.

[Wayfinder3]

it's a catch 22

Having all jobs with the ability to synergize with each other is a good thing as this game has had a history of some jobs just being awful forever simply because their rotations didn't line up properly with the best job in the game (NIN)

So fixing that issue caused more homogenization. personally, i don't mind it too much however the only way for them to meaningfully fix this without bringing back jobs having needlessly poor rotation timing is to give more jobs burst windows on 90 sec windows to where a comp could realistically benefit from this or dissolve the concept of burst alignment and tune fights in such a way that jobs aren't incentivized to stack buffs. removing buffs would fix this since nobody would care if the MNK and WAR are on 90sec windows but then people would complain that those synergies no longer exist which further leans into the issue with homogenization.

tl;dr, i don't really think this is a problem and many jobs have burst on the same 60sec 2min window for years. RDM NIN and SAM all burst on a 2min window and they don't play anything alike

[Ransu]

Let's not forget that the devs had stated at one point before that they don't want to lock everything to a specific burst window meta as that would be, in their words, "boring". Kind of funny to start seeing changes go in the very directions they once said they didn't want to do because of a belief it would negatively impact the playerbase.

Eventually you're kinda forced down a path. They see a trend of certain jobs being excluded and the devs don't want that so they go out of their way to ensure everyone has a role. Its a double edged sword.

[Kolsykol]

I really don't think it's a '' mass worry '', few people even partake in content where it's even relevant and even fewer actually take advantage of the two minute burst window.

That said I really miss having Jobs that were more utility based and I don't think that small minority that this is even relevant to should necessarily be driving Job design and balance.
To some extent yes, in the sense that a Jobs potential obviously needs to be taken into consideration when balancing.
But on a gameplay level I don't think it needs to revolve so much around it.

It's a bit of a two-way street tho, on the one hand the devs are indulging players in it and on the other hand the players are creating the situation ourselves with the obsession with meta.
The moment you have a 60s or 120s cd players are going to start figuring out how to min-max it and then revolve everything around it.
Maybe I am totally wrong about how modern WoW works, but in WoW things like Bloodlust and WAR cd's for example had like a 30 min cd I think.
Works better in a raid scenario that last longer with more bosses maybe but in FFXIV it wouldn't work.
But I think that maybe dps cd's could be longer and not so perfectly fit and line up with everything at least especially raid-wide buffs.

I actually think FFXIV is a bit too well-designed which might sound odd.
But it's well-designed to a point where things perhaps feel a bit rigid and less free.
I don't hate it or anything I still love the combat and I think the Jobs for the most part play very well.
There are issues and yes ffs don't get ultra madge the removal of Kaiten was bad and I dislike it being removed too but SAM still plays very nice even if it did become worse with the removal of Kaiten.
The overdramatization of everything gets a bit ridiculous at times.

I do think the removal of Kaiten however sorta gets into the problem of rotations feeling rigid, with Kaiten you at least had something to keep track of that wasn't just your cd's.
When that was removed it just became the Shinten spam button.
I think we need more Kaiten and less Shinten spam or cd tracking.
More dynamic things to do and keep track of, they don't need to be super difficult or anything it's not like it was hard to keep track of your Kenki but the thing is that it was something that wasn't just spamming a button on cd or revolved around a damage cd.
I don't think that the latter is the only thing you should be thinking about all the time.

it's a catch 22

Having all jobs with the ability to synergize with each other is a good thing as this game has had a history of some jobs just being awful forever simply because their rotations didn't line up properly with the best job in the game (NIN)

So fixing that issue caused more homogenization. personally, i don't mind it too much however the only way for them to meaningfully fix this without bringing back jobs having needlessly poor rotation timing is to give more jobs burst windows on 90 sec windows to where a comp could realistically benefit from this or dissolve the concept of burst alignment and tune fights in such a way that jobs aren't incentivized to stack buffs. removing buffs would fix this since nobody would care if the MNK and WAR are on 90sec windows but then people would complain that those synergies no longer exist which further leans into the issue with homogenization.

tl;dr, i don't really think this is a problem and many jobs have burst on the same 60sec 2min window for years. RDM NIN and SAM all burst on a 2min window and they don't play anything alike

Yeah it's a bit strange to reference SHB because SHB had this going too.
It's not anything new at all it has just escalated, but it's definitely not new.

SAM for example was still revolved around lining up Tsubame-gaeshi every 60s, and you only had one stack of it too so it was even more important.
Same with MNK and NIN you still had you dmg cd's your rotation revolved around.

Edit: Oh stuff like Tornado Kick rotation for MNK tho, I miss that.
MNK has had a history of some cursed but fun stuff lol.
Still tho so long as damage cd's exist and they're on a relatively low cd things will continue revolving around them.

[Duskane]

I don't hate the synergy with 2 minutes but i do hate how charge actions have become "save for 2 minutes" leading to a lot of jobs feeling similar in this regard,
every damaging gap closer,shadow bringer,gauss/richochet etc,
its fine for some jobs like MCH but i don't think gap closers should have potency.

[AziraSyuren]

If you ask me, it would've been much better if they split jobs between 60s and 90s burst windows rather than doubling down on the 60s/120s one.

I know the dev team hates raid synergy differences (and I do too) but I'm definitely at the point where I'd prefer a bit more variation than balance. We have enough jobs that we could have at least 2 distinct meta comps if jobs were split evenly between 60s and 90s, so it's potentially not nearly as much of an issue as it used to be. It was hardly an issue in ShB.

I guess it makes fights easier to design, but the dev team hardly takes advantage of the freedom current job design offers them to begin with so it just feels like a waste. And even with current design, some jobs are still significantly worse in some fights than others so it ends up feeling doubly pointless.

[MagiusNecros]

Would prefer that jobs be unique instead of relying on burst windows. Then again the most fun job this expansion has been Dragon Kick Monk outside of Fisher.

When you get down to it even Blue Mage has this problem by fitting everything into a Moon Flute with all the Primal skills. Some of which you guessed it have a 2 min CD.

Too much overreliance on building raid encounters around 2 minute burst tends to pigeonhole most if not all jobs into that sort of playstyle.

[Kolsykol]

Then again the most fun job this expansion has been Dragon Kick Monk

.... Fisher DPS Job when tho?

[Vatom]

it's a catch 22
the best job in the game (NIN)

Hmm didn't know that