Thread: Revert summoner to 5.55 while re-reworking it please?

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Almost every class in this game is easy to play. If it’s that unsatisfying people could play any of the other easy classes.

Or, you know, they could have maintained the oGCDs and strengthened the core mechanics of the job while adding the new stuff instead of wiping it out. (And that has nothing to do with Bio and Miasma btw... to appease a certain someone's weak heart).

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Or people like playing it. That it’s not complicated enough for likely a huge minority of players on the complaining (err dps) forums is irrelevant.

Almost every class in this game is easy to play. If it’s that unsatisfying people could play any of the other easy classes.

This ^

I play SMN quite a bit and often see others queue up for roulettes... SAM as well. It really is a niche group of people that are just grumpy and inflexible.

Originally Posted by Deveryn

This ^

I play SMN quite a bit and often see others queue up for roulettes... SAM as well. It really is a niche group of people that are just grumpy and inflexible.

Also calling people "lazy" and other disparaging names here while acknowledging the higher play rate means the rework was a success. People are playing the class. Pretending that they know what is going through other people's heads and claiming they play the class while hating every minute of it is absurd.

Originally Posted by Manamaru

Unfortunately, if Squenix doesn't introduce leviathan, ramuh, and shiva into the mix by next expansion, you can consider the SMN class good as dead since they'll be too hyper focused trying to "correct" this mistake until it's so broken that barely anyone will want to touch it. We'll see what happens, and the comments and threads to follow with it. I can hardly wait.

I know right. I worry because leviathan is huge lol and it seems they using the near original sizes of the primals. They will really have to shrink Leviathan down a bit.

first, I prefer the ew smn over the shb it's not perfect but at least it has an order to it. As for the other 3 summons it kind of shocking they didn't perhaps that what they will do in 7.0 have garuda, titan, and ifrit after bahamut and ram, levi , shiva after phoenix. with move sets similar to the first set. Also, any person who said we need choices have you look at this game every time there have been choice options it always been mid max to the extreme where one way became The Way eliminating the "choices." As for the no 29 -80 progession it there just you not getting a new button every few levels. If you look at most the other jobs, they are not getting many more button either. I'm guessing this will be the way of things going forward as controllers can only hold 32 buttons.

There's hard, intuitive, easy and then there's healer rotations and then there's new summoner.

The DPS role exists solely to do damage, there is no justification in any of them having a rotation simpler than any and every healer - particularly when the reasoning behind lobotomising the healer role was to encourage the players to focus on the responsibilities of that role (healing for those hard of thinking). Whether or not the devs line of reasoning had any basis in the reality of their game design is neither here nor there.

It doesn't really make sense that they completely lobotomised the carbuncle either. I'd be fine with having dots removed if they improved upon pet actions (since Summoner is supposed to be the PET DPS) but now the rook turret/Automaton Queen is more of a pet than our carbuncles and egis.

I know there's a non-zero number of people who hate every minute of playing it yet still play it because that number includes me. My alt has a summoner because I enjoyed playing it in shadowbringers it, and I now do unreal with it because there's always already a dragoon and I don't trust random healers in the slightest. We can also look at the data which clearly shows a high play rate with a low enjoyment rate, indicative of people either locking themselves into it with savage drops and limited tomes or people playing it for reasons other than enjoyment.

I will not pretend to know what kind of content you take it into or with what degree of competence you play, but I see no reason to weigh your anecdotes more heavily than a survey of nearly 3000.

I think I disagree about the rotation having a flow to it - it's kind of hard to articulate, but as they are the summons get in the way of building momentum for the mandated 2m burst. I suppose one way of looking at it is summoner always feels like it's in a burst phase, but without the depth to back it up. This seems to be a fundamental issue with how summoner is currently designed - central enough that the job would need re-rebuilt from the ground up to sufficiently address. The addition of more summons, while perhaps aesthetically nice, could not help unless they add a mechanic of each primal affecting the next. This wouldn't really solve the problem with the demis or complete lack of anything to manage either though. The gauge doesn't show anything worthwhile on - it's more a countdown for the number of remaining casts than anything else, and with energy drain pretty much being a part of the demis, that's merely an afterthought now too. Even warrior with its eternally simplifying fell cleave gauge has the infuriate recast reduction to account for.

Generally the rotation is not quite the same as paladin, which despite its very flat damage curve, manages to have enough depth in both might and magic phases to largely carry the gameplay or samurai* where midare setsugekka doesn't wear out its welcome despite the frequency of casts across its rotation. There's nothing quite like summoner's, which tragically is not a compliment in this case.

I sincerely believe there hasn't been something this badly concieved in the game since 1.0.