Building a better Alphinaud

[Theodric]

Might want to start from the top and actually read. You'd realize there's nothing wrong with what I said as they clearly missed the point that the Scions weren't really disbanding as said multiple times in the game. There was no bait n switch like Renalt makes it sound

There absolutely was a bait and switch. The Scions were set to disband and that raised the hopes of those of us who wanted them to genuinely take a step back and make way for new characters with more variety and interesting personalities. That the game immediately dashed those hopes less then ten seconds later does not make it any less of a bait and switch.

[Seera1024]

Might want to start from the top and actually read. You'd realize there's nothing wrong with what I said as they clearly missed the point that the Scions weren't really disbanding as said multiple times in the game. There was no bait n switch like Renalt makes it sound

While story wise it wasn't a bait and switch, they could have gone a patch cycle without the scions to sell it to us players since sometimes the patches pick up right after events and sometimes they don't. Or at least keeping it down to the two newest members - G'raha and Estinien. G'raha because we promised adventure and Estinien because he bought the map. Estinien could have been the one hiring adventurers going with the ad for adventurers idea that aveyond proposed and our WoL stumbled into it on pure accident. Once WoL got hired could have extended an offer to G'raha either having Estinien pay G'raha as well or the WoL splitting their share with G'raha. Then you'd just have to make sure at least one other member of the non-scions were a tank or healer to cover the necessary roles since G'raha is an all rounder. Then brought in relevant scions when information came up that would make it worth it for them. Such as once you established we're dealing with cross realm stuff (which was only after the dungeon) bring in Y'shtola given her interest in cross realm travel.

Edit: And that's not even touching if it would be a complete replacement or just a temporary thing for the patch cycle.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

There absolutely was a bait and switch. The Scions were set to disband and that raised the hopes of those of us who wanted them to genuinely take a step back and make way for new characters with more variety and interesting personalities. That the game immediately dashed those hopes less then ten seconds later does not make it any less of a bait and switch.

You make it sound like they cant still introduce "new characters with more variety and interesting personalities"
They have done it, several times throughout the games entire history in each expansion. Permanent members? Umm...G'raha, Kryile, Estinian...even Alisae. all 4 of these characters slowly joined the group. So its not like we had only the same members since the beginning....

What happened to you man...?

[Slatersev]

There very clearly setting up Vrtra to be the fourth when we go to the thirteenth. (What do you think that secret project of his they kept mentiong was? A body for rift travel, duh) He was toe to toe with Shotla as the most important character in 6.1 and is clearly being set up for more Which only makes this argument funnier.

Like there doing what some want, introducing new important NPC's and working them in. But Y'shtola and Estinien were also there so it doesn't count

[Theodric]

What's being requested is variety. Meaningful variety. Not interesting characters being downplayed due to the bloated main cast who have to be tied to absolutely every major storyline. There's a lot of characters in this game that I like and without exception, they're always hidden away in side content or generally just brought out here and there for the occasional token cameo - and that's assuming that the writers even remember that they exist in the first place.

I would have liked something different than another decade of the Scions and every 'new' character that joins them conveniently adapting the exact same set of morals and opinions towards absolutely everything.

G'raha, Krile, Estinien and Alisae are also arguably not really 'new' characters given that they were all present as far back as ARR. I'd also argue that Estinien joining the Scions only served to erode away most of his grit in order to reduce him to comic relief and distance himself from the role of the 'realist' in order to have him sing the exact same song and dance as Alphinaud. What 'conflict' now exists within the group is entirely surface level and far removed from the sort of tension that existed in many of the single player titles. Such as Steiner's dynamic with Zidane, Hope's attitude towards Snow, Gladio's tension with Noctis and so on and so forth.

Just because some people go to a restaurant and order the exact same dish each and every time that does not mean everybody else wishes to do the same thing.

[CrownySuccubus]

Such as Steiner's dynamic with Zidane, Hope's attitude towards Snow, Gladio's tension with Noctis and so on and so forth.

Which completely overlooks the fact that in each of these cases, the exact same thing happened. By the end of the game, everybody's pretty much buddies. Steiner and Zidane became friends (or, at the very least, close allies) by the end of the game to the point that Steiner was in the crowd cheering when Zidane reunites with Garnet at the end of the story -- an outcome he would have attacked Zidane on sight for at the start of the story. Likewise, Hope and Snow pretty much buried the hatchet not even halfway through FFXIII. In FFXIII-2, Hope credits Snow and Lightning with helping him become a stronger person, and being able to move on from the death of his mother (ie, the entire reason he hated Snow). Gladiolus and Noctis became so chill that after Noctis returns after being missing for a decade, Gladio is actually upset that Noctis just greets them with "hey". Later, he even respectfully refers to Noct as "Your Majesty".

If you want "more dynamics" like these characters, then we pretty much already have it.

[Rulakir]

Prior to EW, Yoshi-P made it sound like at the end of 6.0 the WoL was going to be left alone somewhere unfamiliar to the extent he had to reassure people you'd still have contact with characters you knew only for post-6.0 to be Scions as usual. Expectations subverted again? (I suppose this goes along with "no Scion is safe".)

As for the Scions, all but one of the party members are Sharlayan scholars, who have agreeable personalities and share the same values and goals. I'm not sure where this supposed diversity is coming from as they're the most homogeneous cast I've ever seen in any medium. G'raha isn't the Exarch anymore, he's just another Archon now. Estinien's also been neutered from who he used to be in HW.

EW has shone a spotlight on their lack of interpersonal dynamic and impenetrable plot armor. They're just not interesting characters to me anymore and I'd like the opportunity to move on from most of them to meet more actually diverse people (and not just in hair color).

[Boblawblah]

I was honestly very much looking to having some adventure time away from all the scions, that's sort of what the story lead me to believe would happen. A new adventure as it were, sort of a reboot. But within a single quest, I was doing the same things, being told what to do by the same characters, and I realized that "oh..okay, I guess I had my away time off-screen". I get it, it's hard to suddenly change how a story is going to be delivered, but as many here have mentioned better than I can, it's a bit disappointing.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

What's being requested is variety. Meaningful variety. Not interesting characters being downplayed due to the bloated main cast who have to be tied to absolutely every major storyline. There's a lot of characters in this game that I like and without exception, they're always hidden away in side content or generally just brought out here and there for the occasional token cameo - and that's assuming that the writers even remember that they exist in the first place.

I would have liked something different than another decade of the Scions and every 'new' character that joins them conveniently adapting the exact same set of morals and opinions towards absolutely everything.

G'raha, Krile, Estinien and Alisae are also arguably not really 'new' characters given that they were all present as far back as ARR. I'd also argue that Estinien joining the Scions only served to erode away most of his grit in order to reduce him to comic relief and distance himself from the role of the 'realist' in order to have him sing the exact same song and dance as Alphinaud. What 'conflict' now exists within the group is entirely surface level and far removed from the sort of tension that existed in many of the single player titles. Such as Steiner's dynamic with Zidane, Hope's attitude towards Snow, Gladio's tension with Noctis and so on and so forth.

Just because some people go to a restaurant and order the exact same dish each and every time that does not mean everybody else wishes to do the same thing.

...what game do you think you are playing?
When a group gets together, typically they have the same goal in mind. They didnt just "conveniently adapt the exact same set of morals and opinions" they already did have the same mindset. They were a group made up of mostly Colleagues.
Estinian never stopped being a Realist, even when Alphi's hopeless Optimism started to sink in, he was still real. So I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Now it just sounds like you want conflict for the sake of it. What would it do for the characters or narrative to have them butting heads instead of being focused and fighting the enemy? Is that just something you find compelling?
But Again...You make it sound like they cant still introduce "new characters with more variety and interesting personalities" they absolutly still can, and they have. And they will continue to do so. Might not suit this 'meaningful' thing that you go on about that doesnt make any sense, but you can count on new characters regardless.

If you want "more dynamics" like these characters, then we pretty much already have it.

It sounds like the argument is that they all need to be complete opposites in every single way, and so they but heads and derail the journey for the sake of conflict and artificial tension.
Not to completely drown the concept, it happens in many stories, but Im not sure how that will make any of the characters or the storyline in FFXIV more interesting. But again its not like they cant just introduce new characters later that will fulfill that.

[CrownySuccubus]

It sounds like the argument is that they all need to be complete opposites in every single way, and so they but heads and derail the journey for the sake of conflict and artificial tension.

No, if I had to take a stab in the dark, after seeing this argument come up enough times and the way it's made, I think the sentiment is dual-result of sour grapes ("How come X character I liked better died, while Y Scion(s) I don't like get to live?") along with dictator apologism ("How come X country that had dictator Y doesn't have one anymore after the Scions beat them and instead have Z republic?").

The two arguments kind of compress together into "the Scions' morality has ruined everything I like about the story and I want them gone".

Again, this is just the impression I get after seeing these exact points brought up ad nauseum by the same people.