Building a better Alphinaud

[KariTheFox]

Also, there is a nation in the setting that continues to be an Isolationist state that keeps foreigners out and doesn't lift a finger to help anyone in international affairs. Consequently, very few stories can be told about Hingashi because they've closed themselves off to being influenced by foreigners (us).

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Not really sure what you're getting at, in all honesty. Other than the usual strange attempts to gatekeep what people are 'allowed' to like and push for within the setting.

Though if being cordial is not your cup of tea then I suppose we have nothing further to say to one another.

It's not like asking for more variety in terms of what the story embraces is 'controversial'. It's...a fictional setting. One that is meant to appeal to a broad range of players from many different backgrounds, countries and belief systems. As such, it only makes sense to actually reflect that variety in a way that is meaningful. Other MMO's accomplish it to various degrees of success.

Sometime man...just sometimes....

[Raven2014]

Also, there is a nation in the setting that continues to be an Isolationist state that keeps foreigners out and doesn't lift a finger to help anyone in international affairs. Consequently, very few stories can be told about Hingashi because they've closed themselves off to being influenced by foreigners (us).

Hingashi is not an isolationist. They're a neutral like the Swiss. They're literally set up themselves up as a trade and financial hub on that corner of the world, so definitely not isolationist.

[Theodric]

Also, there is a nation in the setting that continues to be an Isolationist state that keeps foreigners out and doesn't lift a finger to help anyone in international affairs. Consequently, very few stories can be told about Hingashi because they've closed themselves off to being influenced by foreigners (us).

...and if it continues to remain as such, I will be pleasantly surprised. Though from what I remember, quite a few posters over on the lore forum are practically drooling at the prospect of visiting the inner territories and installing a new system of rule and a leader that does things in a way that is to their liking.

That is, of course, assuming that we ever even go to Hingashi in any meaningful capacity ever again. They never did put the Garlean or Thavnairian Consulates to any use...

[KariTheFox]

Hingashi is not an isolationist. They're a neutral like the Swiss. They're literally set up themselves up as a trade and financial hub on that corner of the world, so definitely not isolationist.

Huh? They very explicitly do not involve themselves in international affairs, and foreingers are barred from entering the nation proper.

They have a single port city that allows international trade and foreigners, and are explicitly a reference to Japan's isolationist Edo period. If Hingashi can't be considered isolationist, then pretty much no nation can.

[MikkoAkure]

I want the world to feel like an actual world. Not something where everything ends up catering to the same handful of characters at every turn. I\\\\'m not sure why some of you pretend as if everything doesn\\\\'t go the way the Scions want when all is said and done when they now have most of the leader figures across two different worlds at their beck and call.

Both worlds became split along lines of “us versus them”, so it was natural that the “us” side that ended up winning would be friendly with the Scions or the Alliance.

Every single country on the Source is either a Garlean vassal state, a previous Garlean vassal state, or a potential Garlean vassal state except for Sharlayan, Thavnair, and Hingashi. The previously Garlean vassal states and the potential Garlean vassal states were helped by the Scions, but mostly the Eorzea Alliance, in order to make them not Garlean. I’m not sure how that’s difficult to wrap your head around. They weren’t immediately formed in the story as Scion supporters, we had hours of gameplay to make that happen.

On the First, there were literally just 2 countries and one of the was led by a lightwarden trying to keep the end of the world going and after we killed him and their people stopped eating food made out of angels made out of their neighbors, they became friendly.

I also suspect that the same posters who have made it crystal clear that they dislike Garlemald and all it represents would gleefully jump at the opportunity to rid it of the chance to persist with an Emperor. To push it in a different direction despite it not exactly being difficult for the writers to just...install an Emperor that isn\\\\'t interested in war and conquest. Or perhaps even being bold enough to do as much in order to maintain the looming threat of invasion in the background.

Why do they NEED to have an emperor? It makes no sense in the context of the story except to cater specifically to your tastes. The country warred against itself twice in the span of a year over imperial succession despite the fact the country was stable for centuries with a senate led by a consul.

The whole reason that the empire is left in such a state is the fact they were led by a hereditary ruler and had one monarch who purposefully did not leave an heir in order to cause the country to fall apart and another whose heir was a homicidal lunatic who a legatus correctly believed was at one time puppeted by a “demon”. Totally working out for them, isn’t it?

If we just put another royal on the throne who we’ve never heard of and has never been in the story before just so that we can keep the “Garlemald Empire”, what does that even bring to the story? Garlemald as a “character” basically learns nothing, there’s no chance for “character growth” like the other city-states went through, just “sorry we let ourselves get led by an angry ghost and try to take over and then destroy the world twice, but we’re going to keep being an empire for some reason.”

[Raven2014]

If Hingashi can't be considered isolationist, then pretty much no nation can.

Uh ... Isghard pre 3.0? They're a prime example of isolationism. No contact, no trade, no diplomatic mission (where you can find a whole range of consulates in Hingashi) with very little info known about the inside and very little care about what happening on the outside. Hingashi despite the secretive of their government, is still too integrated to be consider a real isolationist.

[Theodric]

I have a hunch that what people who never liked Garlemald to begin with consider to be 'character growth' is very different to what those who do like it - flaws and all - would desire. Which brings us right back to me simply stating that I'd appreciate more variety. I'm not sure why a request along those lines bothers some of the usual suspects and it does strike me as a bit strange given that some of those same posters insisted that the story supposedly 'had to' go a certain way when it came to the Scions and Hydaelyn.

I'm more interested in the unique elements of every nation and culture we come across rather than listening to the Scions and City State leaders engage in their usual sophistry. As an example, the presence of organisations along the lines of the Illidari in WoW or the Reachmen of Markath in ESO never bow down to the player character but still persist in the world as a force that stand as either allies or opponents as the situation demands it. Such need not come at the cost of the Scions, either - you guys can still have them front and centre if you so wish. It's just that some of us - again - simply want some variety. For characters and factions to exist that are not simply there to be fodder to be cut down and come to align with everything the player character and their immediate social circle so desire.

Either way, this is a conversation that has been had many times before and I've explained my points quite often. I suspect at this point those who do not 'get it' either never will or are feigning not understanding in an effort to misdirect and reframe what is actually being stated.

[GrizzlyTank]

Are you going to nitpick every single thing?

[Lustre]

Are you going to nitpick every single thing?

Yes,

Anyway theodoric made some good points. I fail to see of the existing characters and factions who could even attempt to fill the void left by the absence of both ascians/ancients and garlemald. Every nation state is holding hands, and singing the United Anthem of Alphinaud. I really hope 7.0 doesnt just introduce a "one expansion and done" type of villain. The void stuff is all good I suppose, but I cant see it extending beyond the patch cycle.