Building a better Alphinaud

[CrownySuccubus]

I do not believe that characters with androgynous traits like the twins should be pushed to the front as much as they are, which is to say nothing of the overbearing presence of gender-neutral hairstyles in this game that to date satisfy neither gender. People aren't looking at characters like Alphinaud and saying, wow! I can't wait to play as/go on adventures with that character! Quite the opposite in fact.

He is both visually and ideologically unimpressive. If this game had its own Illidan equivalent I imagine it would do a lot more to appeal to people than some white haired teenager with magic lasers and his crew of samey yes-men.

See, this is the main issue I have with you and Theodric's claims. If your goals were merely about more "variety", then that'd be fine. More variety isn't a problem, in and of itself. But you two have constantly made it clear that your ideal is to have what you want replace, or added in place of, the alternatives. It's becoming increasingly apparent that part of this irrational anti-Scion demagoguery is to have the "androgynous" cast replaced as the FFXIV front-runners, and it seems the rest of the arguments are merely attempts at justifications.

However, if what you were saying alone were true, then Nier: Gestalt would have outsold the remake, Nier: Replicant.

Also, gender-neutral hairstyles are no issue whatsoever. Both in-game genders have plenty of exclusive hairstyles. Should there be MORE hairstyles (especially for Hrothgar)? Of course. But, once again, better hairstyles is not mutually-exclusive to gender-neutral ones.

[aveyond-dreams]

Wow it's almost as if the original NieR games had region locked protagonists and other issues besides graphics. Nier Replicant however has a cast of characters that accounts for diversity of thought and ideology, and isn't afraid to take risks like FFXIV. That is why it so beloved.

And no, I'm not going to pretend like I'm remotely against the replacement and deletion of characters like Alphinaud and G'raha Tia. If they finally leave the main cast I'll probably throw a party in one of the housing districts. They're bad characters that have negatively impacted the story and world with their presence. The lanky, less masculine character archetype can be fulfilled by literally any other character that isn't them.

Stop forcing these immortal characters and their misguided ideals down our throats. Perhaps I should begin claiming that my side is the majority if only to re-assert control over the direction that this game is spiralling down, away from the things that once drew me towards it. Scion fans are so quick to claim the majority for themselves, so I see no reason why I cannot do the same moving forward.

[tokinokanatae]

I vote for a manly man that’s passionate about spreading the glory of republican statesmanship join the Scions. He can take over for Alphinaud in Garlemald while Alphinaud helps us with the Void. It’s perfect!

[SentioftheHoukai]

See, this is the main issue I have with you and Theodric's claims. If your goals were merely about more "variety", then that'd be fine. More variety isn't a problem, in and of itself. But you two have constantly made it clear that your ideal is to have what you want replace, or added in place of, the alternatives. It's becoming increasingly apparent that part of this irrational anti-Scion demagoguery is to have the "androgynous" cast replaced as the FFXIV front-runners, and it seems the rest of the arguments are merely attempts at justifications.

However, if what you were saying alone were true, then Nier: Gestalt would have outsold the remake, Nier: Replicant.

Also, gender-neutral hairstyles are no issue whatsoever. Both in-game genders have plenty of exclusive hairstyles. Should there be MORE hairstyles (especially for Hrothgar)? Of course. But, once again, better hairstyles is not mutually-exclusive to gender-neutral ones.

Why is it that the only thing we can get out of you are accusations and insinuations about what people are like IRL, Crowny. Say all this rot all you damn well bloody like, but where do you get the ideas from? I'm rather convinced that if what you say Aveyond wanted was accurate, they'd just come out and say it. At the end of the day, the character creation in FFXIV is just sorely needing a revamp. Hairstyles, body archetypes the whole nine yards. If more stereotypically masculine options crop up, all the better. I mean, honestly what is so offensive about a man looking like a man anyway?

[CrownySuccubus]

Wow it's almost as if the original NieR games had region locked protagonists and other issues besides graphics. Nier Replicant however has a cast of characters that accounts for diversity of thought and ideology, and isn't afraid to take risks like FFXIV. That is why it so beloved.

Thanks for agreeing with me that the aesthetics of the protagonist had little, if nothing, to do with it.

Ah yes, the "diversity of thought" dog whistle. I was wondering when you guys would bring that out again.

In this case, you're pedaling the argument that the establishment of self-governing republics isn't "diversity of thought", but somehow Garlemald turning everything into a militaristic province was? Or having ten different tyrannical monarchies was diverse in thought?

And no, I'm not going to pretend like I'm remotely against the replacement and deletion of characters like Alphinaud and G'raha Tia. If they finally leave the main cast I'll probably throw a party in one of the housing districts. They're bad characters that have negatively impacted the story and world with their presence. The lanky, less masculine character archetype can be fulfilled by literally any other character that isn't them.

Stop forcing these immortal characters and their misguided ideals down our throats.

Again, this is just your opinion. You, and anyone who agrees, is welcome to it. But it's not an objective indication of quality.

[tokinokanatae]

Since when? Citations please?

In this thread alone? Here and here.

[aveyond-dreams]

It's almost as if I want to go see a republic I could just go outside and see American flags flying around but traditional, medieval monarchies don't exist in the real world and I like seeing them in games.

[CrownySuccubus]

It's almost as if I want to go see a republic I could just go outside and see American flags flying around but traditional, medieval monarchies don't exist in the real world and I like seeing them in games.

Cool. There's still plenty of them in the game. Once again, this isn't "Oops All Monarchies, or None At All".

The only people who have EVER claimed their side are some "mythical majority" are those Theodric and Aveyond were arguing against. Do you really think I wouldn't remember, Crowny? Come on, now. Do you really think I wouldn't remember, Crowny? Come on, now.

To be honest, I don't know who you are nor care what you do or don't remember.

If this "their side" you're talking about are people who liked Endwalker's story, then you're sure as hell not talking about me. I detested Endwalker's story for the most part, but as I've also said (which you've also conveniently forgotten) is that just because I hate one aspect of FFXIV doesn't mean I'm going to nod my head to any and all hate of it.

So really, given how spotty your memory is, maybe I shouldn't have expected you to remember.

[Sarkany]

I do not believe that characters with androgynous traits like the twins should be pushed to the front as much as they are, which is to say nothing of the overbearing presence of gender-neutral hairstyles in this game that to date satisfy neither gender. People aren't looking at characters like Alphinaud and saying, wow! I can't wait to play as/go on adventures with that character! Quite the opposite in fact.

He is both visually and ideologically unimpressive. If this game had its own Illidan equivalent I imagine it would do a lot more to appeal to people than some white haired teenager with magic lasers and his crew of samey yes-men.

The thing is, poll results, and general fan activity, indicate that people do like the twins. Despite Alphinaud being small and skinny and not being a physical fighter, a lot of people do like him. He is, in particular, definitely more popular than Fordola. I mean, I like Fordola fine, I'd be happy if she showed up more, but the reason he's a main party member in EW and she's in two unvoiced, high-requirement sidequest chains is not actually that SE just doesn't realize everyone likes her better. (I can't know this for certain, but I suspect most people who want Manly Men in the core party are happy with Estinien and Thancred.)

[MikkoAkure]

As I said above, they have no right and are nobody to try and cause regime change in Garlemald or have any say in their future. Sharlayan is under no threat from being invaded by Garlemald. Leaving the Garlean Empire with nothing but a faceless senate in order to continue to push the ideals of Sharlayan democracy was a mistake. It has robbed the region of the things that drew me towards it in the first place, but I suppose if what you want is to see your own real life ideals reflected directly in the game world then you'd have no issue with the current state of the writing.

I however do not. I want my fantasy world to remain as such. I do not believe that people who want the real world in FFXIV should be prioritized in this manner, there are fundamental pieces of world building that shouldn't be compromised in the way in which they are now. Garlemald should have remained a monarchy. There should be far more monarchies as well. Ilsabard as a whole was left underdeveloped by the decision to rush the conclusion of Season 1, and my confidence in the current state of affairs is at an all time low.

The twins had nothing to do with Garlemald's government at all and their father said "well there's some senate members who are still alive, they're better than nothing, let's get everyone to them and get together to rebuild the country".

Garlemald for all intents and purposes currently does not exist as anything more than a smoldering ruin and a bunch of refugees. The entire royal family was wiped out by infighting, which also destroyed the entire country. Some senators happen to still be alive and that's the closest thing the survivors have to anything closely resembling a civilian government. Garlemald was also a republic for 600 years. 60 years of a ghost with an emperor hat doesn't change that and it ended up giving them the destruction of their society. Sharlayan had nothing to do with their choosing a republic when they first created their senate and all Fourchenault is doing now is trying to find someone in charge so that the Garleans can rebuild themselves without outside interference because Sharlayan is all about non-interference.

I'm not sure where you get all these ideas from, but if you keep repeating the same thing over and over, it doesn't make you right.

Limsa Lominsa, O'ghomoro, Gridania, Xelphatol, Ul'dah, Paglth'an, Dravania, Idylshire, Thavnair, Doma and its many petty-kingdoms, the Azim Steppe, Hingashi, Dalmasca, Nagxia. These are not republics.
Sharlayan, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo, Bozja, Garlemald. These are republics. 2 of those have been republics for centuries and 4 are coming off of having extremely terrible regimes with no one left to continue the old ways.

The number of non-republics still outweighs the number of republics in the game. Then there's the old imperial remnant provinces, but we don't really know how those will go. I'm sure the majority of them were monarchies but when a giant empire comes in and destroys your country's government and kills off the royal families, they tend to not be monarchies anymore. It's funny that you keep talking about fantasy elements disappearing in the game but yet you support Garlemald who was actively destroying them. Besides killing off mages and knights in Landis, they also have oil refineries, very sci-fi forts and buildings with screen displays, airships, guns, robots, and even skyscrapers and modern day cars and trains.

Even if we had the rest of Ilsabard in an expansion set in the first half of Endwalker, nothing would have changed because we already know that all of Ilsabard is ruled by Garlemald. There's no room for any other monarchies there and the end would have been the same with Garlemald falling and Varis's corpse turning into Anima. It would have just been the usual "Garlean technology on top of whatever was there before that wasn't already destroyed", and a lot of unique elements like Landis's magic knights all dead or turned into Garlean soldiers.


Another thing to add is that nothing has changed to the casual observer in Ishgard. They weren't a "traditional, medieval monarchy" before, just a theocracy. The people themselves chose not to trust the church anymore and the church did all of that themselves. The lords still have power, but they can no longer force the peasants to do their bidding with the backing of the church now that the peasants have guns and ideas and there's no more existential threat about to wipe them off the mountainside. But there's still castles, knights, mages, and tons and tons of grey stone. It's just that there's no more elf pope on a throne and the lords and the peasants get together behind the scenes to squabble about government but it's not like we can see that, nor do we really hear anything about it at all after the storyline is over anyway.