Building a better Alphinaud

[Avidria]

And I wonder whether that opinion would change if you were to consume other stories and media.

Not particularly.

I've played and watched playthroughs of plenty of story games, some of which I'd genuinely call masterpieces of storytelling, and I still enjoyed the majority of the Endwalker MSQ. Would I call IT a masterpiece? No. It had it's flaws, imo the worst being odd pacing, uninteresting villains early on (specifically Zenos and Fandaniel for a fair chunk of it), and frankly a too long list of characters - too long to do most of them justice. But I still enjoyed the story overall, and I still actually like almost all of the Scions.

...and the one I don't like is Krile. So.

[Raven2014]

And believe it or not some of us like to think about and analyse the characters and stories of the media we consume.

Your point being? That the people who disagree with you don't or can't analyses the stuffs we consume?

Just like there are some movies are considered classic, some can be considered iconic, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate a nice casual comedy or action flick. I think one would be miserable to hing their enjoyment to some limited standard.

At the end of the day, if I can enjoy a classical, a rock, a hip-hop performance equally, that just means there are more things for me to enjoy in life comparing to people who can only enjoy one single thing.

[CrownySuccubus]

On the comparison between FFIX/DA:O and FFXIV, I'd like to know exactly why the former two are being considered "superior" to FFXIV. Without knowing what metric is being judged here, any comparison between any of the games is pointless because it could be immediately dismissed as subjective.

[aveyond-dreams]

Characters were visually distinct, had different origins/contrasting personalities that set them apart from each other and made for interesting and entertaining interactions. It really is that simple. A shame that FFXIV could not accomplish this.

[Theodric]

Characters were visually distinct, had different origins/contrasting personalities that set them apart from each other and made for interesting and entertaining interactions. It really is that simple. A shame that FFXIV could not accomplish this.

Aye. Particularly in the case of Dragon Age! Nations not automatically agreeing with and sharing the exact same set of beliefs also made things very interesting. I remember being pretty fascinated with Orlais and very happy to see a French inspired nation present in a video game. We sort of got that with Ishgard, which I consider to be one of the better designed nations in FFXIV.

[Mr_Gyactus]

....OR he can grow moustaches as Lord Fortemps and a nice tribal tattoo on his back.

[CrownySuccubus]

Characters were visually distinct, had different origins/contrasting personalities that set them apart from each other and made for interesting and entertaining interactions.

Well, let me start with the caveat that none of these things are objective qualities which make a cast of characters better or worse than each other. In FFX, for example, there are only two characters in the main cast who are not "pretty young people" (Auron and Kimahri), and only one (maybe two) whose journey is not "help Yuna on her pilgrimage" (Rikku and technically Auron).

That being said, if this is the metric you're using, then I can also argue that the FFXIV cast at least doesn't rely upon jokes and physical slapstick for most of its character charm, which is the case of HALF of FFIX's cast. For example, Steiner was a repeated victim of this starting with the second cinematic cutscene he's featured in. Likewise, Amarant's entire character arc comes from one cutscene in which he's the butt of the joke, and then a second cutscene in which he learns The Power of Friendship. Eiko's entire character is "haha isn't it funny that this little girl is sexually harassing the main character the way he does other women?". And then there's Quina, whose entire character is just a gag.

The exceptions to the above, of course, are Zidane, Garnet, Vivi and Freya, whose characters are fully fleshed out without relying on gimmicks to do it. But, when that accounts for only HALF of your cast, then something's wrong.


Where the cast of FFXIV has an advantage over DA:O is that their personalities are not entirely dependent upon the protagonist either kissing up to them (sometimes literally) or treating them like dirt. The main weakness of any Bioware game (or ones like it) is that the characters are sometimes less their own people and more dress-up dolls for the player to turn into whatever function they want. No one fits this description more than Morrigan, who goes from seductive vamp to tragically in love with her mark depending on whether or not you slept with her and gave her some gifts. (This isn't even getting into her development later in DA:I, where she's a kinder, gentler person no matter what you chose.)

Now, the fact that most characters can leave you depending on what choices you make is interesting, but it also ultimately limits their growth (aside from the popular ones, like Leliana, Alistair and Morrigan, who manage to have major roles in later games even if you kill the former and separate from the latter two). Wynne, Oghren, and Shale don't really matter in the end and, likewise, are basically never mentioned again after Awakening, and Zevran is reduced to a War Table mention in DA:I at best. Alistair, like Leliana and Morrigan, is popular enough that he manages to return in other games (unless he becomes a drunken vagabond), and is probably the most dynamic character in the entire series.

And then there's Dog....who's a dog. (He is, however, a VERY good boy. Yes he is!)


Frankly, there's a lot to like about all three casts. Despite my prior harshness to the FFIX cast, they are one of my favorites in the series. However, taking this to personal analysis for a moment, just because I like something doesn't mean I don't see its flaws (and the inverse), and the number of playthroughs I have of DA:O says more about how interesting I find that game, too. But at the same time, I can see a lot of things to like about the cast of FFXIV -- even Lyse, who is probably the Scion (past or present) I like the least, is still interesting enough to me to want to see where her story goes. I can't say the same thing about Shale or Oghren or Zevran. Or Amarant or Eiko or Quina. I don't have anything specifically against any of them...they're just inconsequential. It doesn't matter how "varied" they are or from how many different walks of life they're from. Those factors are not the final arbiters of character quality.

[Seera1024]

I think a lot of it boils down to what you expect out of a video game's story.

I go into video games expecting the kind of story you get in a summer action blockbuster. The plot that's obviously just there to tie action scenes together and you're lucky if your main character has any kind of character growth. RPG games I do expect to see character growth and a plot that's a bit more than just to tie the "action scenes" together.

I do have issues with all of the expansion stories and think some things could have been handled differently. It's just not the point that it significantly impacts my enjoyment of the story. Because just looking for a touch of actual plot and some character growth. Which we have gotten in all expansion packs.

Some people go into games wanting the quality of stories you would get if you picked up a good book and started reading it. Strong plot and good character growth of the main cast.

And neither side is wrong in their approach to video game stories, especially those in the RPG genre.

Could the character growth of the main cast be stronger? Yes. That's a fact. Whether or not said fact has any impact on whether or not a game is enjoyable or not to an individual is subjective. No one is wrong if they say the game is immensely enjoyable despite its flaws in storytelling. No one is wrong to say that the flaws in the storytelling have hurt their enjoyment of the game.

Could the story be stronger if there was a main cast shake up? Yes. Is it wrong to enjoy the current main cast and hope that they stick around for awhile? No.

Does the OP have points about Alphinaud's character development? Possibly. To know for sure on how I stand on that, I'd have to stop and analyze the story and analyzing stories isn't fun for me and would reduce my enjoyment of the story overall. Again goes down to what I go into a video game for story wise. You don't analyze an action blockbuster movie's plot.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Please make the case for why the cast of FFXIV is better than the cast of FFIX or Dragon Age Origins then.

Why should we? Whats the argument or debate here? Or rather...what is the Point?
Some of us like and enjoy FFXIV and its characters. We even enjoy characters from other series & franchise; books, movies and other videogames.
Are we not allowed to like these things, AND FFXIVs characters?

Or are we only allowed to like what you and Theodric deem good?
News flash, we are all different.
Also, none of us made an argument or a case that FFXIV characters are better then characters from FFIX or Dragon Age.

I am content with my analysis and look forward to the day that the issues I have highlighted are corrected.

I think at this point you just want attention.
Because you're making crap up out of thin air and deeming victory over nothing.

[Slatersev]

Aveyond was the person constantly saying that if ever get an expansion thats no themed around a High Fantasy Europe analogue it would fail and the fanbase would hate it because they personally can't stand anything non Western European.

Which was a ludicrous take at the time but I can't believe I myself failed to point out that FFX is one of the top three highest selling games in the series and a beloved classic. And its as far from Fantasy Europe in setting as possible.

Point being they treat there opinions as objective facts and dismiss any others as inherently wrong if they don't line up. Which makes discussion rather pointless