Building a better Alphinaud

[IkaraGreydancer]

I find it funny some of you think new supporting cast = good. And no before you say it "at least they're new n fresh" is not a excusable reason. I'll never understand this infatuation with making xiv emulate other games...when you could easily just go play those other games.
Shoving in group conflicts doesn't inherently make things more interesting. It's just nonsensical ESPECIALLY when it between folks who've known each other as long as the Scions have. They've been through more than pretty much anyone else so why in the world would conflicts arise between them now? Idk about you but getting rid of the Scions to replace them with petty goofs who are stubborn and infighting is not my idea of an interesting time. And getting rid of said Scions is always a quick way to turn an enormous amount of the playerbase off. Though I get the feeling that doesnt exactly matter to some.

Frankly there isn't a ff out there (that ik of) where the supporting cast isn't of one accord whether that's at the start or end of said game. Would seem folks want more inner conflict, edginess and the removal of anything light and fun. I'll say it here, it's not going to happen no matter how many threads you make repeating the same thing

[KariTheFox]

Their ideology has made the world less interesting with each nation they ruin. What we need now are characters as far removed from the scions as possible.

I mean, that's your opinion. Even if I accept your premise that the scions are the ones responsible for political change, and not the self determination of the people in the nations involved, I still think a story about the transition from a monarchy or theorcacy to a republic is an interesting one.

I can think of countless fantasy stories about the rightful king assuming the throne, but not many where the monarchy is dissolved and a republic is formed.

My only issue is that aspect isn't explored in more detail, I just hope we can revisit Ishgard and Garlemald one day and really get into the worms of the political situation there. Since if you want a conflict of ideologies, I can't think of many settings better than the political parties and ideas that are born out of a nascent republic and political revolutions.

[aveyond-dreams]

People who have known each other a long time having group conflicts is nonsensical? What? Siblings and even long-term friendships go through turmoil especially the longer it goes on, the only thing nonsensical here is the endless nodding and agreeing with each other. Their arcs are over. They only remain for fanfiction-style writing where nothing of consequence can happen. Under normal circumstances, if an arc is over, writers move the characters out so new and refreshing stories can take place. It is extremely unfortunate that FFXIV is unable to follow suit in this regard.

I completely disagree that getting rid of the white haired and ideologically homogenous scions would turn an enourmous amount of the playerbase off. If the end of ARR is anything to go by, that would only increase everyone's hype for the story once these characters finally exit the stage.

The whole monarchy to republic thing got old after it became their defacto way of wrapping up regions they don't want to deal with - the fact that they've repeated the same old song and dance this many times is a problem. I don't want to be told the same story 4 times in a row. Introducing irl political structures this many times comes across as preaching and it doesn't make for a world I want to spend time in.

I don't play Final Fantasy games because I want to liberate places and turn them into republics. The more and more unique political systems evaporate into thin air as the scions make their way, the less magic there is in this world. Couple that with throwing the Ancients out of the plot and a mountain of evidence that undermines my faith in the future story, this feels like one of the darkest moments in this game's history.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I don't play Final Fantasy games because I want to liberate places and turn them into republics. The more and more unique political systems evaporate into thin air as the scions make their way, the less magic there is in this world. Couple that with throwing the Ancients out of the plot and a mountain of evidence that undermines my faith in the future story, this feels like one of the darkest moments in this game's history.

I dont play Final Fantasy or any videogame for politics.
And I disagree that this is a Dark moment at all. Endwalker isn't even finished and we barley even know whats happening in the future plotline.
Ill wait and judge once more of the Patch content releases for the rest of the expansion.

[Striker44]

I completely disagree that getting rid of the white haired and ideologically homogenous scions would turn an enourmous amount of the playerbase off. If the end of ARR is anything to go by, that would only increase everyone's hype for the story once these characters finally exit the stage.

Please stop making stuff up to suit your own desires. The scions aren't ideologically homogeneous, but they are immensely popular among the large majority of the playerbase. There's a reason so many little fan-service pieces about them get included. Because the fans love it and love them. They do what actual mature, functional people do in our world - offer their opinions, but then coalesce around a decision and support it. Sadly, we don't have many real-life examples like that anymore, but that doesn't change the inherently logical approach used here.

[CrownySuccubus]

People who have known each other a long time having group conflicts is nonsensical? What? Siblings and even long-term friendships go through turmoil especially the longer it goes on, the only thing nonsensical here is the endless nodding and agreeing with each other.

I completely disagree that getting rid of the white haired and ideologically homogenous scions would turn an enourmous amount of the playerbase off. If the end of ARR is anything to go by, that would only increase everyone's hype for the story once these characters finally exit the stage.

Except you and Theodric aren't talking about merely "disagreeing" with each other. I specifically brought up the fact that the Scion's don't see eye-to-eye earlier and it was dismissed as "surface level". You guys are talking about flat out opposing each other on moral and philosophical terms, and that is NOT something "friends" typically do. As I mentioned before, even your "better" example of FFIX ends with three people who outright hated Zidane at the start (Steiner, Amarant and Garnet) becoming such good friends that they all risk their lives to rescue him on Pandemonium. Garnet and Steiner wind up falling in love with him and fully supporting said love, respectively, by the end of the game. Furthermore, the end of the game has the survivors of Burmecia, Lindblum, Cleyra, Alexandria and other kingdoms all becoming allied forces under a banner of friendship.

The whole monarchy to republic thing got old after it became their defacto way of wrapping up regions they don't want to deal with - the fact that they've repeated the same old song and dance this many times is a problem. I don't want to be told the same story 4 times in a row. Introducing irl political structures this many times comes across as preaching and it doesn't make for a world I want to spend time in.

As I mentioned in another thread, we also have stories about deposing one monarch to establish another (the Fae), a story about ending an occupation to restore a Monarchy (Doma), a story about BECOMING a "monarch" (the Steppe), and a story about helping a monarch step out of the shadows (Thavnair). You aren't hurting for different outcomes.

I don't play Final Fantasy games because I want to liberate places and turn them into republics. The more and more unique political systems evaporate into thin air as the scions make their way, the less magic there is in this world.

Again, it's really silly that "a whole lot of monarchies" are being called "unique political systems" but different types of Republics created by different people are being called "the same".

[IkaraGreydancer]

People who have known each other a long time having group conflicts is nonsensical? What? Siblings and even long-term friendships go through turmoil especially the longer it goes on, the only thing nonsensical here is the endless nodding and agreeing with each other. Their arcs are over. They only remain for fanfiction-style writing where nothing of consequence can happen. Under normal circumstances, if an arc is over, writers move the characters out so new and refreshing stories can take place. It is extremely unfortunate that FFXIV is unable to follow suit in this regard.

I completely disagree that getting rid of the white haired and ideologically homogenous scions would turn an enourmous amount of the playerbase off. If the end of ARR is anything to go by, that would only increase everyone's hype for the story once these characters finally exit the stage.

The whole monarchy to republic thing got old after it became their defacto way of wrapping up regions they don't want to deal with - the fact that they've repeated the same old song and dance this many times is a problem. I don't want to be told the same story 4 times in a row. Introducing irl political structures this many times comes across as preaching and it doesn't make for a world I want to spend time in.

I don't play Final Fantasy games because I want to liberate places and turn them into republics. The more and more unique political systems evaporate into thin air as the scions make their way, the less magic there is in this world. Couple that with throwing the Ancients out of the plot and a mountain of evidence that undermines my faith in the future story, this feels like one of the darkest moments in this game's history.

If you know how good writing should be done, at this point why aren't you in that profession? It's clear you believe your an Adonis when it comes to this realm so it makes me curious.

My close friends I've know for 10+ years and the last time we had any issues was in middle school more than 7 years ago. Sorry but while possible, if you're going through turmoil as you put it with folks you've known for a substantial amount of time you need new friends. Also what constitutes as "normal circumstances"? Is that another way for you to once again say "how I believe it should be"?

If you think HW was hype because of the lack of Scion involvement due to the end of ARR then you're more lost than I thought...
I also love how you devolve them to just "white haired and ideologically homogenous" as if thats all they are. Then again it's obvious that's all you see them as.

I do wonder how the Ancients were apparently just "thrown out" of the plot though. They served their purpose when it comes to the story. Hell without them via Elpis we'd have lost. We already knew they wouldn't stay longer due to the nature of them being sundered...but even then. Pandemonium is still going so technically they haven't been "thrown out". And it seems the 12 may have ties to the Ancients in some way but we wont know for sure til we get more of that story. But I can only assume that's just not enough for you as always.

[KariTheFox]

Looking at the nation states the Scions interacted with:

Ul'dah - monarchy, monarch attempted to abdicate and give more power to the citizens, but the monetarist class that has a huge amount of influence stopped that. Still a monarchy.

Limsa Lominsa - rule by person who wins a boat race every five years - still doing that.

Gridania - theocracy, power held by the Seedseers/Elementals. No change.

Ishgard - technically a theoracy, but I'm willing to call it a monarchy if you want. Old power system dissolved and replaced with an elected house of commons and an un-elected house of lords.

Doma - occupied territory of the Empire, Empire kicked out and monarchy restored.

Ala Mhigo: occupied territory of the Empire, Empire kicked out, old monarchy not restored. Replaced by a republic modeled off of Ishgard's new house of commons.

Eulmore - had a "mayor" that ruled unconditionally through fear and control. Was replaced by a mayor who actually was elected by the people. I'm willing to call this an "abolished monarchy".

Sharlayan - rule by a council of 100 elected forum members. No political change there.

Thavanair - changed from rule-by-dragon-monarch-in-secret to openly ruled by dragon monarch.

Garlemald - monarchy basically defunct before the scions arrive, what they're going to do next. Might be a republic like the pre-monarchy days.

And this isn't even counting the various tribes and smaller polities that the scions leave mostly alone, except to remove the "pro-primal summoning" factions from posistions of influence.

So, out of the states the scions had major interactions with, only four could he described as "abolished monarchies" - so, less than half. Hardly an epidemic... and given the fact that this is all happening around a time of major political change like an occupying empire being driven out and people being liberated, it kinda makes sense.

[aveyond-dreams]

How convenient that you left out both Eulmore and Garlemald. They've turned 4 unique nation states into cooker cutter democracies over the course of Season 1. Once would've been tolerable, twice would've been questionable, but this? And of what little other monarchies or unique systems remain, half of them have had any intrigue and grit stripped from them or were otherwise left behind in regions of the world like the far east that we won't be visiting again any time soon.

[KariTheFox]

I hit post before I was done, this website isn't exactly convinent to use on phone.

And again, if you can't think of how a nascent republic filled with people who are longing for the glory days of the Empire could have any grit or intrigue, I'm afraid that's just a failure of your imagination.