ninja now unkillable in pvp

[Cidel]

Kiting on BRD is insanely easy, what are you on about?

If by kiting you mean popping off Repelling Shot and then running away from them and hoping they don't have friends/follow you, yeah, dey kite. That walking speed on powerful shot makes it real easy to outrun people.

[Gserpent]

Competitive doesn't mean it has to be an esport. Checkers is a competitive game. Any game where you are directly competing against other players is, by definition, a competitive game. Frontlines aren't "competitive" like Starcraft or something, but you still need to design and tune them around the assumption that everyone has at least some level of baseline competency and that everyone is playing to win. I don't think SE does remotely enough on those latter bits, and I wish to hell they had the huevos to actually do something about it - dramatically reduce 2nd and 3rd place rewards, and pile them into 1st place. Then add in tutorials and maybe "custom game" options (minimum 8v8v8) so that we have the option to actually teach players that genuinely want to learn how to play the mode. A lot of FL, at the simplest level, comes down to being able to fight effectively... but how are you going to learn without practicing? And how can you ask questions, receive feedback, etc in DF? There's no pausing, no option to re-queue with the same people, etc.

SE needs to get off their asses and work on that. They put all that wasted effort into Fellowships or whatever, but they can't bother to make it so that we can actually train people in PvP? Imagine if the only way you could raid was through Duty Finder and lockouts were 30 minutes instead of 90 minutes, it'd be a complete shitshow. But that's what Frontlines is.

I do think tanks should have higher DR. I'd do 15% melee and 30% tank and see where that gets us. No DR for ranged or casters. No global damage penalties. Double LB charge timers (1.75x for 2nd, 1.50x for 3rd.) Purify and Guard both reduced to 20 sec. Gain LB charge for kills made within 20yd of an objective (*active* ice, tomelith, etc), for participation on objectives (1 point of LB charge for every X% of damage dealt to ice or robots, etc), and for being within 20yd of objectives when your team secures them. Killing someone with Battle High should give you 1 point of LB charge per rank of Battle High they possess, with assists giving half of that value rounded down (so +1 to assists on BH2-3, +2 for BH4-5.)

You'd also need to add AOE damage fall-off. I'd start with 40% damage reduction for LBs after the first target ("the first target" being the closest target to the center of the AOE or the closest to your position when you used the LB, for ones that do not have direct targeting), and 20% reduction for normal skills.

Understand, I think that if you run at 15 enemy players, you should die in short order. I don't care what class you are playing. No one should be able to tank 15 players for any meaningful amount of time without *serious* assistance from their team. At best, they should hope to live long enough to soak some spells and distract enemy players so their team can get a good initiation on them. I think that FL maps might need an overall rework to increase the number of active objectives somewhat, to discourage clumping and zerging. I think AOE should be powerful and it should be a strong deterrent to zerging in a big blob, but in many cases the map designs *enforce* clumping. I don't mean chokepoints, I mean that there are typically only a few active objectives at any time, which means that splitting up often isn't feasible.

I think fixing the maps might fix FL as a whole without even needing a lot of balance tweaking, to be honest.

[Ransu]

Understand, I think that if you run at 15 enemy players, you should die in short order. I don't care what class you are playing. No one should be able to tank 15 players for any meaningful amount of time without *serious* assistance from their team. At best, they should hope to live long enough to soak some spells and distract enemy players so their team can get a good initiation on them. I think that FL maps might need an overall rework to increase the number of active objectives somewhat, to discourage clumping and zerging. I think AOE should be powerful and it should be a strong deterrent to zerging in a big blob, but in many cases the map designs *enforce* clumping. I don't mean chokepoints, I mean that there are typically only a few active objectives at any time, which means that splitting up often isn't feasible.

I don't know whats going on for you over on crystal, but I don't ever see this scenario happening. Melee's that dive into a zerg group get deleted.

If by kiting you mean popping off Repelling Shot and then running away from them and hoping they don't have friends/follow you, yeah, dey kite. That walking speed on powerful shot makes it real easy to outrun people.

1.) power shot is a filler

2.) this sounds like a you problem and being out of position.

[Cidel]

1.) power shot is a filler

That you would never use when attempting to "kite," which apparently is extremely easy to do on BRD when a few melee DPS turn their crosshairs on it. /s

2.) this sounds like a you problem and being out of position.

Oh it would be; see the joke I made in my 1st post. Although this still happens when one team picks off ranged targets one at a time when an alliance is oversaturated with them. With so many gap-closers, you are a sitting duck unless you fallback preemptively before they can target you. There is a difference between kiting and retreating before the enemy mob can dogpile on you. Any BRD trying to do the former is free Battle High filler. What are you on about?

[AnnRam]

All we needed in FL its to make SMN LB do less damage on big groups, but nope, lets give all melee jobs 60% damage reduction so they are literally unkilleable even 1vs3 meanwhile RPR/NIN/SAM can still use Guard and their rotate their defensive tools. I've been trying to make MCH work in FL and its literally impossible, MM deals max 13k damage at max BH and basic damage less than 1,5k per shoot basically hitting a iron wall with paper balls.

If they want to keep the 60% damage reduction intact then guard shouldn't make you invulnerable to CC anymore, there is NO risk in play Melee jobs right now you can dive 1vs10 and still survive without expending half your MP in recovery.

[Lustre]

As a mch there is no reason for me to even attempt to attack a melee unless they're already 1/3rd health. I used to aether mortar, wildfire, scattershot and marksman spite as a combo to kill melee and that isnt possible now. Takes em to half health lmao. In FL at least, melee dps feel about as defensive as tanks do.

[Lustre]

Pvp balancing is absolutely ridiculous. Do they not test things? WoW pvp was a shitshow and it was still better maintained than this.

[Gserpent]

Pvp balancing is absolutely ridiculous. Do they not test things? WoW pvp was a shitshow and it was still better maintained than this.

Full copium here, but I'm *assuming* that they did not test anything for 6.18, other than "does it actually work as intended?" QA stuff. I think they just drummed up some numbers and ideas that sounded like they'd fix the biggest whines ("melee are useless" and "summoners are overpowered", chiefly) and pushed them out to placate people and they'll revert/adjust those changes and add new, more detailed ones with 6.2.

But like I said, that's copium.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Tanks are tanky...

24 Gunbreakers when?

[Lustre]

Full copium here, but I'm *assuming* that they did not test anything for 6.18, other than "does it actually work as intended?" QA stuff. I think they just drummed up some numbers and ideas that sounded like they'd fix the biggest whines ("melee are useless" and "summoners are overpowered", chiefly) and pushed them out to placate people and they'll revert/adjust those changes and add new, more detailed ones with 6.2.

But like I said, that's copium.

Pretty much agree with ya, seems they took the loudest complaints and then just rolled it out of the door without testing cause there is no way melee being this defensive was intended. I remember my first reassemble+drill on a dragoon after the update. It barely scratched him, I was in front of my pc like HUH tf is that