The Future of WHM

[Supersnow845]

Is that really a problem at all when the healing kit is as bloated as it is and the worst consequence of healer miscalculating is usually just having to pay the DPS back with interest if you need to fall back on GCD heals?

Like yeah, in theory you might be able to do so some last second healing with lilies and aetherflow that you can't with GCDs when people are eating mechanics left and right. But with how the server ticks are and how hard the double-hit mechanics tend to punish, it's still basically a hail mary and people tend to die anyway unless you foresee a player's mistake well beforehand.

I mean without it’s lilys WHM’s “free throughput” was pretty terrible, it isn’t a problem if all healers are like this but you can’t have that sort of problem with WHM when SGE and AST exist in their current form

[elioaiko]

I may vehemently disagree with the great lobotomization of Shadowbringers, but this one point I will concede to the devs: the wonder twins were stifling the healer design space with their overpowered I-have-an-answer-to-every-single-situation kits, and SOMETHING there had to give.

I only say this is because WHM has a lack of creativity left in it. Lily system was created as a fix for the original lily system. Misery is to fix an existing issue that WHMs were punished for even remotely trying to heal.

I want the best for WHM but pretending that it's in a good spot is foolish. There will always be more for WHM to grow. It has potential to be much more than it currently is. WHM finally feels functional, not evolving.

I disagree that SB AST had an answer for everything. What made AST strong in SB was their ability to have AoE balance and free regen healing along with Earthly Star. They lacked burst healing past Star.

I'd agree that SCH was borderline OP but that's only because they had an answer for everything.

The sad thing is that SB was the last time that I enjoyed AST and SCH. If doing what they did to them for the sake of putting them on WHM's level, then they have zero interest in properly investing actual healer balance. They straight up murder SCH and AST's kits because they were perceived as OP. Mind you that WHM was still very popular despite all the negative attention. AST and SCH lost more as they continue to ruin them.

So no the only healer that "won" is WHM because people still keep the popularity of the job alive while AST feels less and less like a fun healer with card buffs and more like a disjointed mess with pretty sfx to compensate.

My point is that WHM is the real reason why healer design has stagnated. Because the devs refuse to give healers more than the basic of healer kits because they can never truly have anything special long term without WHM being left behind. And instead of giving WHM some actual love and design it into a better design, they just leave it to be just that–the starter healer.

[Supersnow845]

I only say this is because WHM has a lack of creativity left in it. Lily system was created as a fix for the original lily system. Misery is to fix an existing issue that WHMs were punished for even remotely trying to heal.

I want the best for WHM but pretending that it's in a good spot is foolish. There will always be more for WHM to grow. It has potential to be much more than it currently is. WHM finally feels functional, not evolving.

I disagree that SB AST had an answer for everything. What made AST strong in SB was their ability to have AoE balance and free regen healing along with Earthly Star. They lacked burst healing past Star.

I'd agree that SCH was borderline OP but that's only because they had an answer for everything.

The sad thing is that SB was the last time that I enjoyed AST and SCH. If doing what they did to them for the sake of putting them on WHM's level, then they have zero interest in properly investing actual healer balance. They straight up murder SCH and AST's kits because they were perceived as OP. Mind you that WHM was still very popular despite all the negative attention. AST and SCH lost more as they continue to ruin them.

So no the only healer that "won" is WHM because people still keep the popularity of the job alive while AST feels less and less like a fun healer with card buffs and more like a disjointed mess with pretty sfx to compensate.

My point is that WHM is the real reason why healer design has stagnated. Because the devs refuse to give healers more than the basic of healer kits because they can never truly have anything special long term without WHM being left behind. And instead of giving WHM some actual love and design it into a better design, they just leave it to be just that–the starter healer.

I love your last point here, the entire healer role is stagnating because WHM is too simple but they have to keep it competitive so they strip stuff out of the other healers to keep WHM viable

[Silver-Strider]

My point is that WHM is the real reason why healer design has stagnated

Are you serious?
WHM has constantly had to give away parts of its toolkit every expansion to SCH/AST. From Protect, to Divine Seal, to Shroud of Saints, to Cleric Stance, even f$%^ing Repose, had to be shared. What room did WHM have to grow in SB? The Lily System was universally panned for its poor execution. They didn't get any new DPS spells. Divine Benison and PI had many issues with them. The only saving grace of SB was Thin Air and you couldn't build on that. Had SE given WHM the current Lily System in SB instead of a dumpster fire, maybe they could have expanded on it back then before they murdered everyone but that isn't the timeline we live in.

SE shot themselves in the foot with Healer design but instead of fixing it, they've allowed it to bleed out.

[Supersnow845]

Are you serious?
WHM has constantly had to give away parts of its toolkit every expansion to SCH/AST. From Protect, to Divine Seal, to Shroud of Saints, to Cleric Stance, even f$%^ing Repose, had to be shared. What room did WHM have to grow in SB? The Lily System was universally panned for its poor execution. They didn't get any new DPS spells. Divine Benison and PI had many issues with them. The only saving grace of SB was Thin Air and you couldn't build on that. Had SE given WHM the current Lily System in SB instead of a dumpster fire, maybe they could have expanded on it back then before they murdered everyone but that isn't the timeline we live in.

SE shot themselves in the foot with Healer design but instead of fixing it, they've allowed it to bleed out.

I mean that’s kinda exactly the point, WHM got the kinda interesting parts of its kit given to AST/SCH and AST/SCH got the interesting parts of their kit deleted so that WHM wouldn’t be left in the dumpster. Sure it boils back to the lily system in SB being an absolute dumpster fire but WHM being held back for an expansion isn’t AST or SCH’s fault

Every time the healers are simplified it’s to make them look more like WHM and generally in a time when WHM is struggling

[Silver-Strider]

I mean that’s kinda exactly the point, WHM got the kinda interesting parts of its kit given to AST/SCH and AST/SCH got the interesting parts of their kit deleted so that WHM wouldn’t be left in the dumpster. Sure it boils back to the lily system in SB being an absolute dumpster fire but WHM being held back for an expansion isn’t AST or SCH’s fault

Every time the healers are simplified it’s to make them look more like WHM and generally in a time when WHM is struggling

I would understand that if WHM was the one with only 1 Nuke/DoT but that wasn't the case since WHM always had at least 2 DoTs from ARR thru SB. It doesn't really make sense that if they were trying to simplify SCH/AST down to WHM levels if even "simple" WHM could handle 2 DoTs.

[CrimsonGunner]

They are the same potency as AST, heck AST's ST regen has a heal attached whereas WHM's doesn't. If you wanna reduce WHM's then we must reduce AST's too.



I do not agree that we should reduce WHM's GCD heals. they aren't too strong they are equal to AST. We just have 2 that are instant cast that are equal to the castable ones that give us a nuke that's equal to if we just glared instead.

Cure 3 missing in the gcd section

[CrimsonGunner]

And synnestry on ogcd for ast

[Sarixis]

While I'm flattered that my content is a part of a conversation outside of Youtube again, it does make me sad that it's the content that I consider an old shame at this point.

[Silver-Strider]

While I'm flattered that my content is a part of a conversation outside of Youtube again, it does make me sad that it's the content that I consider an old shame at this point.

Don't feel bad. Building off a foundation is a lot easier for people to do and you gave them that foundation to work with so they could enhance/adjust it for their own ideas. It's a good thing.

I know I didn't agree with everything in your original video myself but it did get me to think differently and the things I did agree with, I continue to push for so I think it's a good conversation piece worthy of discussion.