Aggro: Do we miss it?

[ArianeEwah]

I should mention, I'm not against a reduction, however, I also don't see the need if there is no benefit. However, I assumed abilities increased enmity based on a scale and not just 1, which does mean having a clearer enmity list could be a benefit for some.

The benefits - while not of great impact - would teach tanks a that they have to dps at least a little, and dps could "measure" themselves vs others more accurate. You CAN hold aggro with 1-1-1... only while at least one the same iLvl as the dps. At least in my opinion, that should not be possible; it just doesn't feel like pressing 1-1-1 while stance is active should be the bare minimum... that's just lazy. It's similar to a healer spaming cure 1 during a lvl 90 raid... while their target will probably never die, this doesn't feel like the bare minimum either, and more like they are watching Netflix while running a bot program. Well anyway, that's just my opinion.
Another point I heard is that apparently we were hitting enmity cap last expansion. This could lead to e.g. tank losing aggro during Delibrum Savage vs a dps with minotaurus buff - although rare, it did happen. Considering how this game progresses and tanks dishing out more enmity than ever since ShB, it could be a measurement against this soon™ upcoming issue. Well, it's still just a wild guess.

On the enmity generated by using stuff... honestly, I am not entirely sure whether it was actually just 1 point, 1 potency or anything like that. But since its impact is minimal, it's neglectable. Just like the enmity fix on Living Shadow /s

Oh, and should actions do additional enmity as a bonus, it could teach tanks to use their whole toolkit. However, that would mean tanks are getting forced to dps hard to hold aggro vs good dps/strong heals, which could lead to newcomers become pressured. So... eh.

PS: I just checked some enmity values from before ShB. Tank stance back then gave a 2.7 multiplier while reducing dmg dealt by 15/20%, thus an effective enmity multiplier of 2.295/2.16. Even while NOT using aggro combos like Rage of Halone/Butchers Block/Power Slash, tank stance alone was enough to hold aggro in most scenarios! In conclusion, a times 3-multiplier (or even a times 2-one) would've been enough as stances don't reduce dmg dealt anymore... Maybe slap some bonus enmity on aoe skills (reason in my previous posts).
I believe Sqex just wanted to rightout remove the enmity aspect of tanking with the exception of Shirk and Provoke... which is mind-boggling. Aggro management has never been this least interactive.
I repeat myself, but since the enmity bar proves no purpose, Sqex could actually remove Shirk and Provoke, too, and just let the target face the tank with stance everytime they attack. Essentially no difference.

[Mesarthim]

The one thing I don't miss about aggro was being the MT with a DRK offtank who doesn't actually understand what dark arts power slash did. Dark arts increased power slash's enmity not damage, but they spammed it anyway even with me telling them. I eventually gave up, shirked them and became the offtank so they'd stop gimping my damage forcing me into aggro combos.

It was one fringe case either way. Aggro is only a team effort when the other tank acts like part of the team.

[Kurando]

Now it's even better, we have sprout (and some not...) tanks voking every chance they get taking aggro from the mt and getting half a party cleaved in the process. The aggro game is still truly alive it just shifted to tanks seeing who can keep it the longest.

[Marxam]

Now it's even better, we have sprout (and some not...) tanks voking every chance they get taking aggro from the mt and getting half a party cleaved in the process. The aggro game is still truly alive it just shifted to tanks seeing who can keep it the longest.

I wouldn't be surprised if they remove the actual tank stance button in 7.0, add it to the tank mastery trait. Instead you put up a DPS stance to NOT gain enmity. I've seen lvl 90's in DF without their tank stance and not realize it until the mobs attack the healers in the pull and party wipes. If it's a trait then it will always be active regardless and there would be no excuse why you aren't getting enmity.

This game is so DPS focused now and enmity is a joke that they should just bring back the OT stances i.e. Sword Oath, Deliverance, Darkside etc. since tanks are just glorified DPS with instant queues.

[Arohk]

Seems like a good learning opportunity for the tank.
The game isn't shy about teaching via failures. Why is team effort shunned?

Depending on the aggro mechanic and game design, a dps player could simply outgear the tank so hard, that there is no way for the tank to keep aggro in the first place, that is not good design, nobody want a badly equiped tank because the good dps will constanty pull aggro.
This might not be the case in FF14, but there are games that work this way.

[Sqwall]

Depending on the aggro mechanic and game design, a dps player could simply outgear the tank so hard, that there is no way for the tank to keep aggro in the first place, that is not good design, nobody want a badly equiped tank because the good dps will constanty pull aggro.
This might not be the case in FF14, but there are games that work this way.

THIS. Is the exact reason tanking was horrible from ARR to Stormblood. If a tank lost agro it was due to the wildly imbalanced agro system that was there. As a paladin with my relic weapon and shield...I would LOSE agro to a DRG with a CRAFTED weapon.

Which would force me to provoke, spam rage of halone combo...over...and over....and over...just to keep the agro off the drg that just kept creeping up on lead agro.

That was the WORST agro system like ever. Which is why WAR from Heavensward to Stormblood was THE top tank for holding agro AND doing amazing damage.

If you are a main tank...the agro system we have now....is STELLAR compared to what we had. The old system reminds me of old WoW where you literally had to whack your forehead on the keyboard to spam your skills to hold agro. FFFFFFF that.

Tanking shouldn't be THAT stressful.

I feel those that want this old system back...haven't really tanked all that much. I'm no stellar tank by any means, but I do understand the system we have now is perfect.

That being said....I do wish that SE would delve into some game mechanics where mobs might reset the agro table and all hell breaks loose. Then the tank has to scramble to grab it back. That would offer SOME danger in to those DPS that want to manage agro as their HP falls apart like a wet napkin, maybe that would help them appreciate the tank that pulls wall to wall with 18 mobs bashing me in the face.

[Sqwall]

I wouldn't be surprised if they remove the actual tank stance button in 7.0, add it to the tank mastery trait. Instead you put up a DPS stance to NOT gain enmity. I've seen lvl 90's in DF without their tank stance and not realize it until the mobs attack the healers in the pull and party wipes. If it's a trait then it will always be active regardless and there would be no excuse why you aren't getting enmity.

This game is so DPS focused now and enmity is a joke that they should just bring back the OT stances i.e. Sword Oath, Deliverance, Darkside etc. since tanks are just glorified DPS with instant queues.

In savage content you NEED that stance with your OT. My OT is a DRK and during the first Pinax in P4S he has to leave his stance off until then. He turns it on. Provokes. Then holds it for the 2nd tank buster until we can get the boss mid for job/role tethers. If he had his stance on he would have to shirk to keep me at lead agro. Shirk has a 90 sec cooldown and it's very important to have shirk up when you REALLY need it so in this case it better to just have it off during his opener and turn it on during his slower GCD.

Heart stake in 2nd phase is another good example. My OT turns on his stance around act 2, vokes RIGHT after act 3 resolves and I shirk to him...resolve the nearsight/foresight...OT moves boss back mid for DPS uptime...then wait for heart stake. I provoke during the casting of heart stake, and OT uses living dead and takes the two hits, once boss turns to me the OT shirks back to me. He can leave his stance on for safety if I mess up, but he'll just keep shirking through the remainder of the encounter as I can take the 2nd Demigod double as homlgang is ready by then. No more tank mechanics up to enrage.

It just makes more sense to turn the stance off if the OT is pulling agro over me and vise versa. MT and OT should be the ONLY ones watching agro and in sync with each other as so much depends on the tanks. DPS or heals take a 8 yalm tank buster to the face while in a group and it's 6 dead in the blink of an eye. The old agro system would promote this 10 fold, and force ninjas and role action diversion shenanigans.

No thanks.

[Sqwall]

The one thing I don't miss about aggro was being the MT with a DRK offtank who doesn't actually understand what dark arts power slash did. Dark arts increased power slash's enmity not damage, but they spammed it anyway even with me telling them. I eventually gave up, shirked them and became the offtank so they'd stop gimping my damage forcing me into aggro combos.

It was one fringe case either way. Aggro is only a team effort when the other tank acts like part of the team.

It's hard to get a DPS to worry about agro when they are so concerned about their parse anymore. Agro never was a team effort, only a inconvenience to the DPS that were forced to throttle.

Now they don't have to. It's just between two tanks now.

[Payadopa]

Aggro management is a bad and outdated mechanic. it punishes good DPS players because the tank is bad.

I don't even know where to start with that.
People play tank because they want to tank.
We can't just get rid of everything because someone gets 'inconvenienced'. There is not much left at this point in my opinion.

[EnigmaticDodo]

I miss Dark Arts Powerslash. You want to provoke over and over randomly? Ok. I still am the tank.

This is probably never coming back though