This isnt working, we need to try something else (Kaiten Post)

[TyrAtatoskr]

In case you haven't heard about the live letter, Yoshi-P mentioned that he is planning on fixing how auto-crit works in tandem with abilities that increase crit chance, as one of the many things that the disastrous 6.1 SAM changes totally botched was that it was no longer viable to be buffed by anything that increases crit chance since it would not stack. This heavily implies that they are keeping the terrible changes, as opposed to listening to the many voices who are all crying out against them

this is in total ignorance of the hundreds of threads on the forums and thousands elsewhere, where they explicitly want us to post our opinions. this is also in total defiance of Yoshi-P himself asking us to, quote, "try it out," implying it had any chance of being reverted if we simply asked enough.


this is the same dev team who has had the Heart of Sabik improperly appear in the English version of the Praetorium all the way from 2.0 to 6.1. Clearly, they do not care for the opinions of English-speaking players or otherwise do not check the English forums, so we will have to branch out. I believe we must enter the Japanese forums to have our voices heard. We all agree with the premise that SAM's 6.1 changes were universally terrible, and all we need to do is get the attention of whoever reads the Japanese forums. I suggest we use Google Translate if you do not have the ability to write in Japanese, in order to have our voices actually heard, as this is an absolute travesty. I will begin the pleas for the devs to read the English DPS forums immediately after posting this, and I implore that you do as well.

Here's hoping it works

[TyrAtatoskr]

Oh, and it should go without mentioning: lay on the politeness. Make sure they know that your problems are with SAM's 6.1 changes and not the devs themselves. Ensure that your words cannot be misconstrued, intentionally or unintentionally, to be impolite or harsh, and simply ask for their consideration. This is likely our last chance to get the class that we love back, and we must seize it.

as well: I was given the idea to have the original English translation in the post. this is because Google Translate is rather bad at conveying intent, and so posts are likely to end up as a mass of jumbled garbage.

[Vencio]

And yet calling me troll on the other post?

Got to love the irony…

It’s already settled & just adapt to your current SAM or roll another.

[TyrAtatoskr]

And yet calling me troll on the other post?

Got to love the irony…

It’s already settled & just adapt to your current SAM or roll another.

you are intentionally going around to unrelated threads and beginning conflict that was not otherwise there for no reason other than conflict itself. that is peak and defining troll behavior, and doing it makes you a troll.

[Poorman]

And yet calling me troll on the other post?

Got to love the irony…

It’s already settled & just adapt to your current SAM or roll another.

Do you even play Samurai?

I'll have to assume you don't, because these changes are bad in a multitude of ways, and "It's already settled" couldn't be further from the truth. I've yet to meet a single samurai player who likes the change.

Kaiten was the lynch-pin ability in Samurai resource management, and without it, the class is broken.

I just don't understand people like you, who feel the need to hop into threads like these just to undermine the OP and people who support him with some snide, dismissive post, that offers nothing of any substance, and is only an indicator of how dispassionate you are on this topic. You could have just not posted, and stayed out of it, but for some reason I personally don't know, you had to come in and post nonsense. I just want to know why. I want to know what goes on in your head. I want to know the thought process behind you, and all the people who do this, because to this day, it still boggles my mind when I see people do it.

[Ruminous]

Do you even play Samurai?

I'll have to assume you don't, because these changes are bad in a multitude of ways, and "It's already settled" couldn't be further from the truth. I've yet to meet a single samurai player who likes the change.

Kaiten was the lynch-pin ability in Samurai resource management, and without it, the class is broken.

I just don't understand people like you, who feel the need to hop into threads like these just to undermine the OP and people who support him with some snide, dismissive post, that offers nothing of any substance, and is only an indicator of how dispassionate you are on this topic. You could have just not posted, and stayed out of it, but for some reason I personally don't know, you had to come in and post nonsense. I just want to know why. I want to know what goes on in your head. I want to know the thought process behind you, and all the people who do this, because to this day, it still boggles my mind when I see people do it.

He doesn't play samurai in anything meaningful, he mostly posts to troll and pretends he isn't, when his entire post history is an open book to us. It's the same, tired routine in every thread that he's participated in here. It used to be funny to watch the mental gymnastics, but at this point it's denial of trolling or intentionally not seeing the trolling. He also cannot read the room and posts nonsense praising SE for removing an ability that he never has to use because he doesn't play it in content that requires you to fully know samurai, or he can and knows that people are mad about it, hence, trolling. Asking what goes through a troll's head is a pointless exercise as well, because you know exactly what they're thinking when they stir the pot.

The question will always be "why does it matter?" and trolls can never offer good answers.

[Reese_Clairdale]

Oh, and it should go without mentioning: lay on the politeness.

Dunno, they whipped up a patch within 5 seconds after Yoshi-P was getting roasted directly on the PvP forums.

In all seriousness though -

if we wait until things are officially announced to start complaining about SAM's changes

I'm not sure where you've been but there have been dozens of threads before and after the 6.1 changes, including one I made myself, a few of which have been perpetually on or near the front page. We've done the best we can so far on official and unofficial platforms. The general consensus has been that 6.1 was a disaster for PvE gameplay design across multiple jobs, particularly SAM, and that arguments in favor of the changes don't really have a leg to stand on.

Clearly, they do not care for the opinions of English-speaking players or otherwise do not check the English forums, so we will have to branch out.

All of our concerns have already been mirrored in every region, including regions that have not even suffered the effects of 6.1 yet. They are as keenly aware of the situation as we are.

It is the job of the community managers to relay our message to the devs in whatever language is necessary.

auto-crit was, afaik, a mostly-unused mechanic until SAM's overhaul.

A total of 6 jobs now have sources of guaranteed critical damage. Critical buff synergy has been an issue for a while.

Personally, I'm being patient until LL part 2 before my final judgement on the situation. Excluding actually beneficial things like the Third Eye timer increase and Meikyo adjustment, if they don't address the 6.1 changes directly with a full reversion, I expect them to catch a lot of heat, both polite and impolite.

[TyrAtatoskr]

All of our concerns have already been mirrored in every region, including regions that have not even suffered the effects of 6.1 yet. They are as keenly aware of the situation as we are.

A total of 6 jobs now have sources of guaranteed critical damage. Critical buff synergy has been an issue for a while.

in regards to concerns, i'd love any, like, numerical evidence that people in other regions are unhappy. even circumstantial evidence; an unofficial count. i obviously cant read Japanese, so a glance at the forums does nothing for me. i'd love to take your statement at face value. i really would. i just cant with Yoshi-P's complete silence on the matter, especially when contrasted with the obvious example of BLM's PVP on the japanese forums. people are INFERRING that AST and DRG's changes being delayed are because SAM's was received so poorly. as far as i know, the devs have not gone "yeah we fricked up with SAM's changes and are now too scared to change anything else." this lack of mentioning does not give me faith.

but again, there's the matter of timing with critical buff synergy. i can't honestly hope for better when the devs announce changes to the whole shebang after it's relevant for SAM and SAM only. they clearly didn't think it was worth fixing before. it obviously wasn't on their radar. why now?


but then there's the matter of the last paragraph: "if they don't address the 6.1 changes directly with a full reversion, i expect them to catch a lot of heat, both polite and impolite." why do think that that will work THEN when it hasn't been working NOW? are you simply giving up before the bell's rung?

I'm not sure where you've been but there have been dozens of threads before and after the 6.1 changes, including one I made myself, a few of which have been perpetually on or near the front page. We've done the best we can so far on official and unofficial platforms. The general consensus has been that 6.1 was a disaster for PvE gameplay design across multiple jobs, particularly SAM, and that arguments in favor of the changes don't really have a leg to stand on.

i have been on the English forums. NOT the Japanese forums which inspired them to, quote,

whip up a patch within 5 seconds after Yoshi-P was getting roasted directly on the PvP forums

NOT the Japanese forums. Hence, this post. I legit don't know how you missed the entire point of this thread.

[Reese_Clairdale]

i obviously cant read Japanese, so a glance at the forums does nothing for me.

It seems like you've barely read the English forums too, I'm just relaying what I've gleaned over the past couple months. Even if I wasn't told how other regions feel, it stands to reason that players across all regions are human beings driven by common sense and will reach similar conclusions about fundamental gameplay changes.

I would say SE's overall silence on the PvE side of 6.1 has mainly to do with the fact that they weren't prepared for such heavy backlash regarding PvE job design. The tone deafness of this has already been discussed to death, but I feel the reason why PvP changes were addressed so rapidly in comparison was because this was a heavily PvP focused patch to begin with, not exclusively because Japan made fun of Yoshi-P. I was making a joke in that regard.

are you simply giving up before the bell's rung?

Genuinely not sure how you reach this conclusion. My very first post on these forums was 1. Direct criticism of 6.1 SAM changes and 2. Offering changes that fall in line with what I think SAM mains would actually like to see using 6.08 as a baseline. In addition to this, I've spent time arguing against people that actively defend SE's nonsense or educating people that don't understand the situation around SAM. All of which is to say, I think I've done more than my part, I'm not sure what more you expect from any individual player here. If SE wants to put me on their payroll I'll gladly spend time fixing SAM and every other job in a way that aligns with community feedback. Until then I am not going to waste more time than I feel is necessary. I'm only even here because I enjoy many aspects of the game and only want to see it become better. 6.1 is a relatively tiny piece in the game's long history. An unusually rough piece, but still.

Meanwhile, your first posts here as far as I've seen were to 1. Bump a troll thread that was making its way off the front page and 2. Create a thread to show disregard everyone's efforts up to this point, because it didn't meet your personal standards. So far the only new game critique I've seen was the Heart of Sabik plot point which doesn't even belong in this subforum. This one example of a lore inconsistency across regions is not definitive proof that staff members never read the DPS forums.

The idea that inundating the Japanese forums with Google translated gibberish is the key to finally affect change is naive as well as impolite, regardless of if it's accompanied by English text. Other people have already cross posted there, probably in proper Japanese and in the appropriate threads. Unless you plan to raid SE headquarters, all of us will have to wait.