Dragoon is next

[Tlamila]

who said you want enjoy the rework though? personally a bandaid is best removed quickly in one go, get the pain over and done with.

The whole history of reworks in the last few years, especially in this expansion, says it.

[george357]

until the new updates are done it all hearsay and drama till then i will wait play my game to see if any improvements are made and not be a crybaby about it.

[butchersblock]

until the new updates are done it all hearsay and drama till then i will wait play my game to see if any improvements are made and not be a crybaby about it.

holy shit you're so manly and dreamy

[ZiraZ]

Is it really something to be content about though? Being safe for the next two years or so just so they can push through some crap changes under the guise of an expansion rework?

at least we're now guaranteed to gain new things on the revamp, not just losing things, like what happened to SAM, mid expac revamps were a mistake

[LeonKeyh]

There ARE some things that they can to do clean up the job that won't change things too much. I _doubt_ that will be it. Every time Work 2 Game mentions the possibility of Dragoon having a Dragon pet like in FFXI I shudder and disappointingly come to terms that it's going to be something like that, or worse... Here's some predictions if it's not changing much (unlikely):

1. Remove Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw from hotbars and have it replace True Thrust like Raiden Thrust does. So instead of the Heavens' Thrust combo being 1-2-3-4-5-1 it would essentially be 1-2-3-1-1-1. Yes, it simplifies, yes, it's kinda shitty, but really if they're looking to make room, this is a nice easy way of doing it.

2. Reduce the number of distinct jumps - Make them all do AE damage, Keep Spineshatter, give it 4 charges (Remove Dragonfire, High Jump, and Star Diver). When you use it you get a 5 sec buff to use Mirage Dive if it's up, if you enter Life of the Dragon then Stardiver replaces Spineshatter until you use it.

3. Make Wyrmwind Thrust Replace Raiden Thrust during that cycle and add the potencies together

4. Clean up AE stuff for everyone and just make all abilities do AE damage

5. Drop Life Surge (basically is a shitty Kaiten)



That drops off 7 abilities if you don't do anything with AEs. I'd say that's plenty of room to grow the job with no significant changes. But, I think that SE should seriously consider my #4, at least for non-healer jobs. AE kits in most (all) jobs are anemic, boring, and taking up almost a third of the real estate on hot bars.

If they changed it so that all abilities are either full AE or are single target with fall off damage (e.g. Wyrmwind Thrust) and get rid of AE specific abilities I feel like that would clean up quite a few jobs. There would be exceptions, I don't think that you could fully do it with SAM, specifically Tenka Goken (Though, I can certainly think of a few things to do with that, e.g. a debuff like Death's Design). But, SAM has a shit ton of abilities that should be merged anyway (e.g. Shoha/Shoha II, Shinten/Kyuten, Guren/Senei, Iaijutsu/Tsubame-gaeshi, etc, etc, etc)

-snip- If people remember, the whole point of the Kaiten removal was to 'reduce button bloat'-

I just hope that we can come together and call out that bullshit if it happens. Kaiten's removal reason has been questioned as a misunderstanding/mistranslation but whatever they meant, this was a shitty way of handling it. Some people say that it was "Button bloat" i.e. hotbar space (Which, I could EASILY, remove 5-6 buttons from SAM's hotbars without changing the job AT ALL, so that's bull) and other people say it's "Action bloat" i.e. number of buttons you have to press for a perfect rotation (Which, again is bull OR the first of a set of changes, because now instead of casting 5 Kaitens, you're casting 4 Shintens, that's not really reducing anything UNLESS the plan is to also reduce Kenki generation)

[butchersblock]

There ARE some things that they can to do clean up the job that won't change things too much. I _doubt_ that will be it. Every time Work 2 Game mentions the possibility of Dragoon having a Dragon pet like in FFXI I shudder and disappointingly come to terms that it's going to be something like that, or worse... Here's some predictions if it's not changing much (unlikely):

1. Remove Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw from hotbars and have it replace True Thrust like Raiden Thrust does. So instead of the Heavens' Thrust combo being 1-2-3-4-5-1 it would essentially be 1-2-3-1-1-1. Yes, it simplifies, yes, it's kinda shitty, but really if they're looking to make room, this is a nice easy way of doing it.

2. Reduce the number of distinct jumps - Make them all do AE damage, Keep Spineshatter, give it 4 charges (Remove Dragonfire, High Jump, and Star Diver). When you use it you get a 5 sec buff to use Mirage Dive if it's up, if you enter Life of the Dragon then Stardiver replaces Spineshatter until you use it.

3. Make Wyrmwind Thrust Replace Raiden Thrust during that cycle and add the potencies together

4. Clean up AE stuff for everyone and just make all abilities do AE damage

5. Drop Life Surge (basically is a shitty Kaiten)



That drops off 7 abilities if you don't do anything with AEs. I'd say that's plenty of room to grow the job with no significant changes. But, I think that SE should seriously consider my #4, at least for non-healer jobs. AE kits in most (all) jobs are anemic, boring, and taking up almost a third of the real estate on hot bars.

If they changed it so that all abilities are either full AE or are single target with fall off damage (e.g. Wyrmwind Thrust) and get rid of AE specific abilities I feel like that would clean up quite a few jobs. There would be exceptions, I don't think that you could fully do it with SAM, specifically Tenka Goken (Though, I can certainly think of a few things to do with that, e.g. a debuff like Death's Design). But, SAM has a shit ton of abilities that should be merged anyway (e.g. Shoha/Shoha II, Shinten/Kyuten, Guren/Senei, Iaijutsu/Tsubame-gaeshi, etc, etc, etc)



I just hope that we can come together and call out that bullshit if it happens. Kaiten's removal reason has been questioned as a misunderstanding/mistranslation but whatever they meant, this was a shitty way of handling it. Some people say that it was "Button bloat" i.e. hotbar space (Which, I could EASILY, remove 5-6 buttons from SAM's hotbars without changing the job AT ALL, so that's bull) and other people say it's "Action bloat" i.e. number of buttons you have to press for a perfect rotation (Which, again is bull OR the first of a set of changes, because now instead of casting 5 Kaitens, you're casting 4 Shintens, that's not really reducing anything UNLESS the plan is to also reduce Kenki generation)

Man those changes would suck. How about we just not remove anything in the middle of an expansion

[LeonKeyh]

Man those changes would suck. How about we just not remove anything in the middle of an expansion

They're not removing anything at in the middle of the expansion, and yes, these changes would suck but they would be the LEAST possible sucky thing that I could think about them doing given their goal. Trust me, 7.0 will be so much worse.

For the sake of bumping this Thread and my stupid curiosity...

Are there any Dragoons genuinely wanting " Any " of the following changes to happen to their Job? Did anyone even request the following?

• DRG gets SMN Rework treatment
• DRG gets Button Bloat treatment ruining DRG Gauge
• DRG gets Auto-Crit treatment
• DRG gets overhauled, simplified, homogenized

Followed with SE's " Oh-so-not-empty-promise ", of ripping off/ removing current DRG skills and leaving DRG like that for patches/months/years in the hopes they replace it with something new and improved that we won't get to see until... well " eventually ".

I don't know any DRG's jumping off their chairs going " Finally!! Been waiting for this!! ", cause most I know don't want their DRG to be reworked into some wheelchair Job. But, I am curious.

Nobody who plays DRG wants any of these, but SE claims that they need to rework DRG in order to grow it further. i.e. "We need to take 10 things away from you so we can give 2 things back next expansion."

[CelestiCer]

For the sake of bumping this Thread and my stupid curiosity...

Are there any Dragoons genuinely wanting " Any " of the following changes to happen to their Job? Did anyone even request the following?

• DRG gets SMN Rework treatment
• DRG gets Button Bloat treatment ruining DRG Gauge
• DRG gets Auto-Crit treatment
• DRG gets overhauled, simplified, homogenized

Followed with SE's " Oh-so-not-empty-promise ", of ripping off/ removing current DRG skills and leaving DRG like that for patches/months/years in the hopes they replace it with something new and improved that we won't get to see until... well " eventually ".

I don't know any DRG's jumping off their chairs going " Finally!! Been waiting for this!! ", cause most I know don't want their DRG to be reworked into some wheelchair Job. But, I am curious.

[ZiraZ]

For the sake of bumping this Thread and my stupid curiosity...

Are there any Dragoons genuinely wanting " Any " of the following changes to happen to their Job? Did anyone even request the following?

• DRG gets SMN Rework treatment
• DRG gets Button Bloat treatment ruining DRG Gauge
• DRG gets Auto-Crit treatment
• DRG gets overhauled, simplified, homogenized

Followed with SE's " Oh-so-not-empty-promise ", of ripping off/ removing current DRG skills and leaving DRG like that for patches/months/years in the hopes they replace it with something new and improved that we won't get to see until... well " eventually ".

I don't know any DRG's jumping off their chairs going " Finally!! Been waiting for this!! ", cause most I know don't want their DRG to be reworked into some wheelchair Job. But, I am curious.

I don't think adding auto-crit would be that big of a bad change, as long as they do rework the crit buffs across the board like they said they would, drg already has very low potency attacks, so it would not change much if HT or Stardiver always crit and Litany buffed dmg % instead or whatever, I would also not mind the removal of Life Surge if that got us a real defensive button.
if they do have to absolutely change drg in some way just to make the job balancing dev team look busy, I wish it's this one and not any of the others.

[fulminating]

If it was still possible to miss out on raiden thrust, I'd not necessarily object to having raiden disembowel/raiden vorpal thrust added on, but there doesn't seem to be much point if you have to actively try to not proc draconian fire.

All it really achieves is a slightly weaker first hit in the opener. I really don't want dragoon to be butchered like summoner or made into a copy of the inferior reaper. If anything, reaper needs to have a look at dragoon and take a bit of inspiration, particularly for leveling. Autocrits might not necessarily be bad depending on what exactly this rework entails, but it seems rather silly to give autocrits to the job that brings little battany and also has life surge and I don't really have much faith in the crit rework solving more problems than it causes. Barring piercing fang, I can't really see any rotation button being removed without pretty bad consequences, or a complete rework like I already said I wouldn't want.

But you know, Scholar/Summoner/Warrior/Dragoon, it's not like they're kind to the jobs I play.