Loot Request - Another path - Criterion Dungeons

[Katoar]

Unless the gear is lower ilvl than savage gear then you will end up with the same issue WoW has with gearing when M+ got added which is in order to raid optimally, you have to spam dungeons to get bis. If gear is going to drop in the Savage versions, it should be Alliance raid equivalent (i.e. 10 ilvls below savage). Even then, if the gear is strong enough, it may invalidate the need for crafting gear unless you're a day 1/week 1 raider.

So no. Have it drop gear that is strong but not equivalent to savage raid gear.

I would very much like it if Savage dungeons are as not considered or treated as a secondary content to savage raids as raids are really not that big of a deal. You have one boss whose tank busters hit less than a wall-to-wall pull in a levelling dungeon.

[Yeastyloins]

I would very much like it if Savage dungeons are as not considered or treated as a secondary content to savage raids as raids are really not that big of a deal. You have one boss whose tank busters hit less than a wall-to-wall pull in a levelling dungeon.

Oh don't me wrong. In these savage dungeons busters should kill a tank if they don't mit it correctly, have bosses and mobs do back to back raid wides and if there isn't a reprisal up on top of shields/substantial heals done between raid wides your group wipes, put a hard enrage cast on boss early enough that forces players to play optimally as if you were doing a savage fight with just over min-iLvl gear; similarly add damage downs instead of vulns to ensure you have to DPS properly while contending with mechanics. Make this hard as nails and if people go in with suboptimal play they don't get to clear.

Just don't tie gear to it, or atleast offer it as a stop gap to fill in pieces as you get your savage raid gear. Not be a total replacement to savage raid gear. The gear shouldn't be what defines it as high end content, it should be the mechanics and the expectations the player needs to meet.

I better see some sick dye-able glams for Savage only tho.

[Katoar]

Oh don't me wrong. In these savage dungeons busters should kill a tank if they don't mit it correctly, have bosses and mobs do back to back raid wides and if there isn't a reprisal up on top of shields/substantial heals done between raid wides your group wipes, put a hard enrage cast on boss early enough that forces players to play optimally as if you were doing a savage fight with just over min-iLvl gear; similarly add damage downs instead of vulns to ensure you have to DPS properly while contending with mechanics. Make this hard as nails and if people go in with suboptimal play they don't get to clear.

Just don't tie gear to it, or atleast offer it as a stop gap to fill in pieces as you get your savage raid gear. Not be a total replacement to savage raid gear. The gear shouldn't be what defines it as high end content, it should be the mechanics and the expectations the player needs to meet.

I better see some sick dye-able only glams for Savage tho.

They could also offer some sort of materia that we can't get from somewhere else. Just some sort of gear progression must be present while reclearing. In savage dungeons, people won't be able to rezz so that's something that makes them more difficult to deal with or recover from mistakes than current savage and even ultimates. Although in most cases, a mistake there results in a wipe.

[Renathras]

Oh don't me wrong. In these savage dungeons busters should kill a tank if they don't mit it correctly, have bosses and mobs do back to back raid wides and if there isn't a reprisal up on top of shields/substantial heals done between raid wides your group wipes, put a hard enrage cast on boss early enough that forces players to play optimally as if you were doing a savage fight with just over min-iLvl gear; similarly add damage downs instead of vulns to ensure you have to DPS properly while contending with mechanics. Make this hard as nails and if people go in with suboptimal play they don't get to clear.

Just don't tie gear to it, or atleast offer it as a stop gap to fill in pieces as you get your savage raid gear. Not be a total replacement to savage raid gear. The gear shouldn't be what defines it as high end content, it should be the mechanics and the expectations the player needs to meet.

I better see some sick dye-able glams for Savage only tho.

I'm a bit confused.

It sounds like you're saying "I want these to be harder than Savage raids...but offer less rewards than Savage raids".

I'm not clear on how that makes sense.

What part of doing - if it IS on par with Savage raid content - your end-game with 4 people vs 8 means you should get lesser rewards?

[Yeastyloins]

Ease of completion. Unless they are going to construct bosses and mechanics that will be 9-11 minutes PER boss, then fundamentally it is easier given you will need to play optimally for a short period of time within 1-2 minutes. The burden of difficulty partially in savage is that you must do the "dance" while continuing to hit your buttons for a significant time. I doubt that they will have 3 9 minute fights for people to do in a dungeon given dungeons are meant to be more fluid in terms of design.

[Rufalus]

I would very much like it if Savage dungeons are as not considered or treated as a secondary content to savage raids as raids are really not that big of a deal. You have one boss whose tank busters hit less than a wall-to-wall pull in a levelling dungeon.

I agree they should provide alternative path to the highest item level equipment. Criterion sounds good but the quality of the rewards is something that can still sink the content after the initial buzz has died down. The normal difficulty version is also at risk of losing long-term participation if it is not connected to the roulette system or giving large exp or something.

[Menriq]

I agree they should provide alternative path to the highest item level equipment. Criterion sounds good but the quality of the rewards is something that can still sink the content after the initial buzz has died down. The normal difficulty version is also at risk of losing long-term participation if it is not connected to the roulette system or giving large exp or something.

You can already get highest item level equipment now. BiS is generally a mix between that and raid drops. Just like in WoW, you can't have repeatable content drop the highest level items as it's a detriment to the other activities. Now, if you want it to work similar to being able to have a weekly cap, or have it drop the supplemental items for enhancing the tome gear, then I could see supporting that.

[Doc_Seraph]

Speaking BiS kupo , you ever just try some odd stat that normally would not be maxed? like on my Mch/bard I tried the mix/match/materia at full skill speed to see and while it was fun it did hurt dps of course but the speed made it actually much more fun kupo <3 lol

[Katoar]

Speaking BiS kupo , you ever just try some odd stat that normally would not be maxed? like on my Mch/bard I tried the mix/match/materia at full skill speed to see and while it was fun it did hurt dps of course but the speed made it actually much more fun kupo <3 lol

Healers don't really have a lot of options when it comes to melding. People max piety, some max determination, others CH and DH and some SpS. SpS AST was BiS iirc when this savage tier was released. I stick with what's useful for my job though I would have liked to try 2.3 recast time for Sage.

Piety is a stat that needs to be removed IMO. It is useless even during prog week 1. Inevitably going to end into enrage p3s/p4s if someone dies. So I had CH maxed and DH pentamelded instead.

[Yeastyloins]

I agree they should provide alternative path to the highest item level equipment. Criterion sounds good but the quality of the rewards is something that can still sink the content after the initial buzz has died down. The normal difficulty version is also at risk of losing long-term participation if it is not connected to the roulette system or giving large exp or something.

Rewards should be substantial in both cosmetics (unique mounts, glams, pets, etc) AND iLvl. I just don't think the iLvl rewards should be the equivalent of Savage Raid gear unless the min iLvl is substantially high like if it was current for 6.0 it being like 590 min iLvl. I think it would be better if it was a stop gap for players to get their foot in the door for savage raiding but still provide a challenge for players. So it could give like 590 from the first 2-3 bosses then 595 from the final boss. It will make savage raiding significantly smoother for groups that require the whole tier to prog given but still hold savage raiding as the end goal.

They could also offer some sort of materia that we can't get from somewhere else. Just some sort of gear progression must be present while reclearing. In savage dungeons, people won't be able to rezz so that's something that makes them more difficult to deal with or recover from mistakes than current savage and even ultimates. Although in most cases, a mistake there results in a wipe.

If its just normal dungeons but mobs get stronger over time and you can't wipe, then its still brain dead content for raiders if everything else is still at normal standards.