Loot Request - Another path - Criterion Dungeons

[Yeastyloins]

I agree they should provide alternative path to the highest item level equipment. Criterion sounds good but the quality of the rewards is something that can still sink the content after the initial buzz has died down. The normal difficulty version is also at risk of losing long-term participation if it is not connected to the roulette system or giving large exp or something.

Rewards should be substantial in both cosmetics (unique mounts, glams, pets, etc) AND iLvl. I just don't think the iLvl rewards should be the equivalent of Savage Raid gear unless the min iLvl is substantially high like if it was current for 6.0 it being like 590 min iLvl. I think it would be better if it was a stop gap for players to get their foot in the door for savage raiding but still provide a challenge for players. So it could give like 590 from the first 2-3 bosses then 595 from the final boss. It will make savage raiding significantly smoother for groups that require the whole tier to prog given but still hold savage raiding as the end goal.

They could also offer some sort of materia that we can't get from somewhere else. Just some sort of gear progression must be present while reclearing. In savage dungeons, people won't be able to rezz so that's something that makes them more difficult to deal with or recover from mistakes than current savage and even ultimates. Although in most cases, a mistake there results in a wipe.

If its just normal dungeons but mobs get stronger over time and you can't wipe, then its still brain dead content for raiders if everything else is still at normal standards.

[Katoar]

Rewards should be substantial in both cosmetics (unique mounts, glams, pets, etc) AND iLvl. I just don't think the iLvl rewards should be the equivalent of Savage Raid gear unless the min iLvl is substantially high like if it was current for 6.0 it being like 590 min iLvl. I think it would be better if it was a stop gap for players to get their foot in the door for savage raiding but still provide a challenge for players. So it could give like 590 from the first 2-3 bosses then 595 from the final boss. It will make savage raiding significantly smoother for groups that require the whole tier to prog given but still hold savage raiding as the end goal.

I think Another path - Criterion Dungeons is a perfect opportunity for devs to incorporate hardcore content that does not revolve around Full party targeting dummy bosses with a different skin on and mechs. We can keep savage raids as a stepping stone for savage dungeons.

I also do not share the opinion that the game has no mid-core content as the jump from Normal Trials and Extreme is very reasonable and nothing out of reach for a casual player who has paid enough attention during the normal trial. And from Extreme to first floor boss of Savage, again nothing too big.

[Akiudo]

Unless the gear is lower ilvl than savage gear then you will end up with the same issue WoW has with gearing when M+ got added which is in order to raid optimally, you have to spam dungeons to get bis.

to be fair, the problem in wow isn't that you can get bis in m+ dungeons but that the game is designed so you will never truly reach BiS so there will quite literally allways be upgrades, especially as m+ sometimes has quite gimicky (and op) items. gearing in FF is a lot more straightforward, so even at worst it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is in wow.

another thing to consider is that they come out during 6.25, at this point the groups that would absolutely require you to run these dungeons will allready have completed the raidtier, whereas depending on their difficulty level a group that is struggling heavily during the regular raid may not even be able to complete them (i doubt that, but it's a possibility). but even if they end up somewhere on the realm of "harder than dungeons, but really anyone that truly puts in a bit of effort can do them", at 6.3 you will again be able to get max itemlevel gear by running alliance raid and grinding tomestomes anyways, so i don't see the issue with offering max ilvl gear for putting doing actual hard content after the halfway point between raid release and catch up mechanic release.

[Yeastyloins]

to be fair, the problem in wow isn't that you can get bis in m+ dungeons but that the game is designed so you will never truly reach BiS so there will quite literally allways be upgrades, especially as m+ sometimes has quite gimicky (and op) items. gearing in FF is a lot more straightforward, so even at worst it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is in wow.

another thing to consider is that they come out during 6.25, at this point the groups that would absolutely require you to run these dungeons will allready have completed the raidtier, whereas depending on their difficulty level a group that is struggling heavily during the regular raid may not even be able to complete them (i doubt that, but it's a possibility). but even if they end up somewhere on the realm of "harder than dungeons, but really anyone that truly puts in a bit of effort can do them", at 6.3 you will again be able to get max itemlevel gear by running alliance raid and grinding tomestomes anyways, so i don't see the issue with offering max ilvl gear for putting doing actual hard content after the halfway point between raid release and catch up mechanic release.

If that's the case, then why not push savage dungeons to 6.3 then when the tier is over? Again, I'd be fine if it provided gear 5 lvls below savage raid gear to maintain some of savage's difficulty. Even before acquiring BIS or getting to that 5 ilvls before max ilvl, DPS and healing requirements become trivial looking at it from a numbers game, leaving the variance in your chance to clear by skill. However, more gear allows for more sloppy and lenient play given you can play safer by losing uptime to guarantee resolving mechanics.

I just think that savage raid's difficulty (or at least the last 2 bosses) should be maintained to a degree within the patch it was released. One compromise however I'd think I would really like though is it providing max ilvl accessories (but not left side gear slots) and maybe a weapon equivalent to the unaugmented tombstone weapon. Provides a good stepping stone into getting your first few savage fights down by getting you some pieces of gear right off the bat while also training you for better play, but still maintains the difficulty of Savage raids.

[Kazelus]

If that's the case, then why not push savage dungeons to 6.3 then when the tier is over? Again, I'd be fine if it provided gear 5 lvls below savage raid gear to maintain some of savage's difficulty. Even before acquiring BIS or getting to that 5 ilvls before max ilvl, DPS and healing requirements become trivial looking at it from a numbers game, leaving the variance in your chance to clear by skill. However, more gear allows for more sloppy and lenient play given you can play safer by losing uptime to guarantee resolving mechanics.

I just think that savage raid's difficulty (or at least the last 2 bosses) should be maintained to a degree within the patch it was released. One compromise however I'd think I would really like though is it providing max ilvl accessories (but not left side gear slots) and maybe a weapon equivalent to the unaugmented tombstone weapon. Provides a good stepping stone into getting your first few savage fights down by getting you some pieces of gear right off the bat while also training you for better play, but still maintains the difficulty of Savage raids.

It's already midway to 6.3, it will be released in 6.25 so savage raids will have started way before savage dungeon... What would be cool, is if it could give gear equivalent to tomestones with different stats and the same system of upgrade so we could have a new source of max ilvl gear. You would still need to do savage raids to upgrade savage dungeon gear, and we will have variety in max ilvl gear.
And that way, it could act as a catch up mechs for people who have bad luck on raid loot.

[Zumi]

The dungeons get added a couple months after the raid has been out so they will not have that issue since they raid would be long cleared by then for most of the average raiders.

[Irenia]

Given that they release on 5.25, weeks after savage, I'd be fine with them giving good tomestones rewards and giving weekly tome upgrade items, or something similar.

Plus glam stuff, of course.

[Amenara]

I honestly don't want any player progress tied to the dungeons. I'd rather it be competitive through leaderboards and have glamour tied to it.

[Jandor]

I'd be fine with savage dungeon rewards being minions, mounts, level 1 glam, bragging rights, etc.

BiS goes in the bin after about 8 months, but stuff that looks cool lasts forever. Not that I'll complain if they also drop useful gear.

[magitekLuna]

In patch 6.25 we will be getting a new game mode: Another path - Criterion Dungeons and Another path - Criterion Dungeons (Savage)

Can we get the best gear in the game through Savage dungeons or maybe some special augmentation for the gear we obtain from raids?

thery did not say what we get from it and its the problem. if it will not give good gear(good looking glams counts) from it the hole thing will flop as it be a one time thingy and be dead in a weak or 2.it being a lvl 90 thing don't give it the lvling option deep dungeons got. this be a content as good as it be that will live on the rewords it got. if they forget of it the same way they did deep dungeons it be a shame and 1 more wasted time of the dev team.