Dalamud impact / Odin.

[faris]

Please read: This is just a thread to throw stuff out there about Dalamud's impact / origins / ideas of what you think will happen when it hits / if it hits at all - and to share premonition with the community. By no means is this a "this is what's going to happen" thread, more like "It's a possibility that ... will happen" thread so please don't take this stuff as gospel. Likewise, if you want to contribute please make sure the things you suggest are plausible. Back up what you're saying with lore!

bolded because it's important: This is also not a "Devs, you must do this! My ideas are awesome!" thread. It's just premonition and is not to be taken as anything else.

Dalmud's effect on Eorzea - pre 2.0.

Does anyone know when Dalmud's going to hit? Has it even been announced, or is the community feeling that it's going to hit in November at the launch of 2.0? Just throwing this out there, but what if it'll impact before that and we're to wander around an apocalyptic wasteland for a few months until 2.0?

We can't be sure on anything, but it makes more sense for us to see the desolation that Dalmud's done, rather than just have a cutscene showing us and a brand spanking new world to go to after we're done with the ginormous 2.0 download. SE's patch system allows the world to change and grow with each update; so the calamity of Dalmud's impact could, and would, look great if shown in version updates. Some possibilities (that the dev team could do without spending an absurd amount of time on them) are!

• Darkness weather in all areas. - Originally exclusive to Mor Dhona, a worldwide Darkness effect would be kind of creepy to say the least. And it's plausible that the devs could add it.
• Edits of existing assets to show the desolation as a result of the impact. No new geography, just edits of existing stuff. In FFXI, slight edits of textures / assets for Wings of the Goddess and Abyssea didn't take up that much resources (PS2 limitations, remember that?) but conveyed the feeling of being in the past / a parallel universe well enough. It's a possibility that the XIV devs would be able to do the same thing with existing XIV assets (shacks. cliffs. grasslands) to show the fact Eorzea's wounded, and dying.
• Alternate monsters in existing areas. Of course, if they're freshly created it'll take up way too much time on the development team's part. But things like Voidsent already exist. Having grouped mobs replaced with Voidsent is a subtle amount of weird to suggest things aren't good. Furthermore, remember FF8's Lunar Cry? They don't have to be at an ungodly level like FF8's monsters were; but if they come from Dalmud, that's even freakier.
• Deaspected Crystals as monster drops / Gathered stuff. Before crafters and gatherers flip, I'm not saying all elemental crystals should be replaced with deaspected. Deaspected Crystals were used as a plot point in one of the rank quests, to show the energy (the same energy the Primals crave) being sapped from them. Again, a subtle way to show Eorzea's wounds.

Odin - pre 2.0.

Lore states that Dalmud is known as a moon given the pet name "the hound of Nophica" or something like that. But obviously, we've all seen Cid reveal that Dalmud is not a natural moon. Cid states that Dalmud is actually a colossal machine created by the Allagan Empire and is not a natural moon. To activate it and cast Meteor, ancient stones known as Allagan runestones are required.

As it gets closer, it's looking less and less like a moon. Look closely at the purple parts of Dalmud. They're some sort of pattern. A pattern which is vaguely similar to the one created on the floor in the Lord Errant cutscene when Ifrit is summoned. What if Odin was to come from Dalmud? There are a few reasons why Odin makes sense.

• The colour of the circles. Call me shallow, but from the concept art we have, Purple is more Odin's colour than Leviathan's.
• Concept art exists for Odin. Self-explanatory. It's there, He's coming.
• Umbral = darkness. Throughout Final Fantasy (though he's not been a bad guy in anything other than XI) Odin has always symbolized darkness. Umbral means darkness. Perhaps the destruction of Odin will bring about the end of the Umbral Eras (We've already had the Umbral Era of Water, Fire, etc.) and open the way for the Astral Eras to begin in 2.0.
• God tier. Throughout Final Fantasy, Odin's always been a summon which isn't for beginners. He's never been obtainable until the late stages of each game; and in XI was seen as a God. It makes sense that an ancient Empire such as the Allagan Empire would have his allegiance / be powerful enough to have imprisoned him. If low tier Primals such as Ifrit and Garuda ally themselves with the Beast Races of Eorzea, wouldn't it be a little unbecoming for something as God like as Odin to do the same?
• FF-centric plot tropes. People have wondered whether or not the empire are all that bad in regard to the threat of the Primals upon Eorzea. With all of the bitching of Eikons / Primals destroying Eorzea and the Empire attempting to cleanse it with fire, it's very... Final Fantasy for the bad guys to accidentally break everything. It's obvious that the Empire really don't quite know what they're doing (hence Cid's reservations and defection) Wouldn't it be precious for the Empire to accidentally send the biggest, baddest Primal in development to Eorzea?
• SE's borderline obsession with Norse mythology. While SE have never depicted Odin as a one-eyed old man, they've used elements in the past with Einherjar, Odin's character in all FF games, the ToAU storyline in XI, and the like.
  Odin is heavily associated with Runes in Norse mythology. Guess what's used to summon Meteor? Allagan runestones.

I rest my case, now I'm resting my face. Discuss!

[Andrien]

interesting theory

[faris]

interesting theory

Wouldn't it be a gigantic FU to the empire for them to unleash that on the world though?

[neorei]

what if Dalmund is Odin?

[faris]

what if Dalmund is Odin?

Ganked off someone's sig. Sorry if you're that person and you're looking at this thread!

It'd be interesting certainly. But I'm unsure. If you look really closely at Dalmund, you'll see the spikes coming from it- and that they also look like swords. Obviously, that's what the sword on the Legacy logo is; but Dalmund could also be a device meant to keep him -- prison or otherwise.

[Teakwood]

Man, I was getting all ready to get all lore-dork on the OP and then I actually realised that's /plausible/.

It'd be -absolutely hilarious- if the Garleans were, unwittingly or knowingly, using a Primal in their plans to fight the Primals.

And they did say Odin wouldn't be a Primal in the vein of Ifrit/Garuda/Leviathan/Titan, since they already had other plans for him...

Odin was (arguably) the single central NPC in the FFXI storyline, the single point tying the entire thing together. I've been -waiting- for him to appear in XIV, and... now you've really got me thinking. (Other plausible inhabitants of Dalamud-as-a-prison: Ramuh, given the purple lightning bolts? I really like the idea of Dalamud as a prison the Empire is going to inadvertently unlock all over Eorzea.)

[faris]

Man, I was getting all ready to get all lore-dork on the OP and then I actually realised that's /plausible/.

It'd be -absolutely hilarious- if the Garleans were, unwittingly or knowingly, using a Primal in their plans to fight the Primals.

And they did say Odin wouldn't be a Primal in the vein of Ifrit/Garuda/Leviathan/Titan, since they already had other plans for him...

Odin was (arguably) the single central NPC in the FFXI storyline, the single point tying the entire thing together. I've been -waiting- for him to appear in XIV, and... now you've really got me thinking. (Other plausible inhabitants of Dalamud-as-a-prison: Ramuh, given the purple lightning bolts? I really like the idea of Dalamud as a prison the Empire is going to inadvertently unlock all over Eorzea.)

kekekekeke, glad to please!

There's the possibility that other primals are imprisoned within this moon; but I'm just going for what's in concept art. I personally think the circles' colour is for Odin, but you could be right. I'm interested in what the Sylph said earlier in the main storyline too; that summoning and using the primals twisted and corrupted the Beast races into what they are now. Clouded their minds, as such. The Garlean Empire are related to the Allagan Empire. ...Doesn't the armor of Van Darnus and Van whatever look very Odin?

Perhaps, at impact, the Empire's soldiers and such will be twisted and corrupted into hybrid forms, like the Ixali and Ama'jaa as a result of Odin's power. Perhaps -- which leads me to wonder if the Beast races were once human themselves.

On another note, given SE's infatuation with Norse mythology, I find it hilarious that the two remaining Primals that have been shown in concept art, that we haven't encountered yet are based on central characters of Ragnarok.
Leviathan's similarity to a certain dragon which spanned the world and would crush it underneath him at Ragnarok is really uncanny. And just to throw something else out there (though the likelihood of this is so small) what if, as a surprise, Fenrir appears? Again, as Norse mythology states, Fenrir is the one that will destroy Odin at Ragnarok. The "lol, surprise!" of that would be awesome.

[NoloeTazier]

kekekekeke, glad to please!

There's the possibility that other primals are imprisoned within this moon; but I'm just going for what's in concept art. I personally think the circles' colour is for Odin, but you could be right. I'm interested in what the Sylph said earlier in the main storyline too; that summoning and using the primals twisted and corrupted the Beast races into what they are now. Clouded their minds, as such. The Garlean Empire are related to the Allagan Empire. ...Doesn't the armor of Van Darnus and Van whatever look very Odin?

Perhaps, at impact, the Empire's soldiers and such will be twisted and corrupted into hybrid forms, like the Ixali and Ama'jaa as a result of Odin's power. Perhaps -- which leads me to wonder if the Beast races were once human themselves.

On another note, given SE's infatuation with Norse mythology, I find it hilarious that the two remaining Primals that have been shown in concept art, that we haven't encountered yet are based on central characters of Ragnarok.
Leviathan's similarity to a certain dragon which spanned the world and would crush it underneath him at Ragnarok is really uncanny. And just to throw something else out there (though the likelihood of this is so small) what if, as a surprise, Fenrir appears? Again, as Norse mythology states, Fenrir is the one that will destroy Odin at Ragnarok. The "lol, surprise!" of that would be awesome.

Yeah I went back into the concept art and noticed Odin's armor looks very Garlean like. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Odin is sealed inside Dalamud, maybe the Allagans summoned Odin but couldn't control him and Dalamud was the last ditch effort to seal him, and they made the transmitters so at a later time they could unseal him and finally kill him. The Devs said Odin will become stronger everytime he's defeated, could this be why the Allagans had to seal him?

You bring up the twisting of those who summoned the primals, could be that a group of the Empire becomes twisted into the Gigas beastmen race that's suppose to appear in Coerthas. Coerthas also being the place of Odin.

[faris]

Yeah I went back into the concept art and noticed Odin's armor looks very Garlean like. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Odin is sealed inside Dalamud, maybe the Allagans summoned Odin but couldn't control him and Dalamud was the last ditch effort to seal him, and they made the transmitters so at a later time they could unseal him and finally kill him. The Devs said Odin will become stronger everytime he's defeated, could this be why the Allagans had to seal him?

You bring up the twisting of those who summoned the primals, could be that a group of the Empire becomes twisted into the Gigas beastmen race that's suppose to appear in Coerthas. Coerthas also being the place of Odin.

I'm thinking exactly what you're thinking with Dalamud. Also, it's so Final Fantasy for ancients being way smarter than us present-day idiots, and we screw it all up somehow. Yoshi-P wanted a "Final Fantasy feel", so perhaps it's coming in form of that trope.

That's a possibility too, with the gigas! But I'm thinking more of the Vans. What if they're already partially twisted, and the actual impact will make them worse? Or make all of the Empire's soldiers like them? That thought would be terrifying.

[NoloeTazier]

I'm thinking exactly what you're thinking with Dalamud. Also, it's so Final Fantasy for ancients being way smarter than us present-day idiots, and we screw it all up somehow. Yoshi-P wanted a "Final Fantasy feel", so perhaps it's coming in form of that trope.

That's a possibility too, with the gigas! But I'm thinking more of the Vans. What if they're already partially twisted, and the actual impact will make them worse? Or make all of the Empire's soldiers like them? That thought would be terrifying.

Yeah exactly, like someone said in another thread, math wise its been about 4500+ years since the Allagans were alive. That is a lot of time for stories to be forgotten. People who weren't apart of the Allagan empire would probably just assume it was another moon.

Well, in FFXI, the Knights of Odin were all, strictly speaking and playing the long game, on the side of Vana'diel; that was the central plot twist of three out of four expansions. I'm not -quite- ready to say that van Darnus actually is right when he says he's bringing about the apocalypse for our own good, but...

I'm not sure it's Odin- although now that I've seen your theorising I'm /nearly/ sure- but I think it's a safe bet that Dalamud is a prison.

More (admittedly circumstantial) evidence towards the existence of technology for imprisoning Primals - in the opening movie, the Garlean airship which the Guardian of the Lake destroys explodes in a huge aetheric surge; several Primals including Ifrit recognisably launch themselves out of said aetheric surge, implying to me that prior to that moment 20-odd years ago, the Primals of Eorzea were still imprisoned - perhaps within Allagan technology that the Empire had taken control of.

Here's a spitball - Odin manipulated someone into attempting to use ancient Allagan tech to vacuum up the Keeper of the Lake into the airship, knowing that the Keeper would bring the airship down and go down with it, releasing Primals trapped within the ship. Then, 20 years later, Odin manipulates von Darnus into another attack on Eorzea, this time utilising Dalamud, bringing it close enough that he'll be able to escape back into Eorzea!

I've put far too much thought into this

To me watching the CS, the Primals aren't released until the crashing into Silvertear Lake. Maybe the Primals were inside of the Crystal Tower asleep and the crash interrupted the aether flow of the area, woke them up, and they were free.

I'm definitely for the idea that Odin is manipulating the Vans, same way Nidhogg manipulated the Dragoon guy. The armor is just so eerily similar.

OH YEAH maybe you can answer this one for me: Where in-text is it confirmed that the Keeper of the Lake's proper name is Midgardsormr? I feel really silly asking this but I somehow haven't stumbled upon that bit of text and it's driving me crazy.

I wish there were a Lore forum! I know they're planning on adding one but it can't come soon enough.

A NPC in Ul'Dah? tells you. But also: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Midgardsormr