Why is Borderland Ruins Secure the worst Frontline map?

[OskarXCI]

I think it's safe to say that Borderland Ruins Secure is the worst Frontline map.

But why?

What can be done to improve it?

TL: DR - Remove the invincibility buff after respawning or make it 1400 Tactical Rating needed to win a match. 1600 currently is too much.

Long Answer: The first thing that comes to mind for me is that match duration is longest of all four maps, on average. It's the only map where matches can last all 20 minutes. The main culprit for this is the invincibility you get after leaving the spawn area. People aren't bothering going for more than 3 bases since if you go to another team's home base, you will just die due to enemy players having invincibility.

The 1600 total tactical rating (TR) needed to win a match takes into account that teams may have 4 or more bases throughout the match. Unlike the bases on the Shatter map, which only grant 2 TR over time, for a total of 6 TR if you hold all 3, the TR you get over time from bases on Secure increases exponentially. Starting at 1 TR for holding 1 base and up to 32 when you manage to keep all 6. But, again, trying to go for 4 or more bases is too risky because of the invincibility you get after respawning.

If you want to make the map more interesting, you should remove the invincibility buff on Secure but keep it on the other maps. If the invincibility buff must stay, you should reduce the amount of TR needed to win a match from 1600 to 1400 (maybe even lower) or generally increase TR gain from various objectives on the map. Be it bases, drones/node and K.Os.

That's my take. I would like to hear other suggestions from people.

Edit: Just to spell it out, here's how bases work on the maps that have them.

Secure:

1 base = 1 TR over time
2 bases = 2 TR over time
3 bases = 4 TR over time
4 bases = 8 TR over time
5 bases = 16 TR over time
6 bases = 32 TR over time

Shatter:

1 base = 2 TR over time
2 bases = 4 TR over time
3 bases = 6 TR over time.

That should give you an idea as to why matches lasts so long on Secure with the invincibility in place.

[MoonMoon97]

Not to mention it has the worst achievement rewards of all the 4 maps. Two maps have mounts while the other has glamour. I'm not sure Borderland Ruins have anything at all or at least not worthy.

[Asuka-Hykiri]

I don't think it's the worst map, but it is pretty boring. It's just 20 minutes of 'run left of base, run right of base, run to mid' and repeat until it ends.

Personally I find Seal Rock (Seize) to be worse. The map design is terrible. Certain spawns have more advantage (West has a plynth that is only accessable via their base where as north has 2 ways up, south has 1 way up which is pointed away from their base)

On top of that, west also has alot of easier to defend platforms. The spawn points are also terrible, but thats a problem on all 3 of the maps

[OskarXCI]

Not to mention it has the worst achievement rewards of all the 4 maps. Two maps have mounts while the other has glamour. I'm not sure Borderland Ruins have anything at all or at least not worthy.

Secure has 2 exclusive titles. "Drone Sniper" and "Heliodrome Hero".

I don't think it's the worst map, but it is pretty boring. It's just 20 minutes of 'run left of base, run right of base, run to mid' and repeat until it ends.

Matches on Secure were way less predictable before they added respawn invincibility. You often had situations where all three teams were gathered at one base. Two teams pushing back the third team to their home base. Players were more encouraged to push since they wouldn't face a wall of players that couldn't take any damage.

Just to point out, they added respawn invincibility with 4.56.

[Gserpent]

Probably because it was the first map they ever made. Compare Secure to Danshig Nadaam and you can tell they're a lot better at designing maps. Not that Onsal is without flaws, but its flaws are a lot less significant than those of older maps.

I'm not sure, precisely, how to fix Secure. But I think the first step would be in making it so that you can actually gain something by defending. The best strategy is to just simply never try to defend points because of how prone FLs are to zerging. 8 people can't defend against 18, nor can they take the point from 18.

I think I'd start by removing robot spawns entirely and turn mid into a king of the hill brawl that's only active for 1 minute every 3 minutes, operates like a CC checkpoint (so the team with the most players inside the active area is considered to be in control of it), and awards a base amount determined by the amount of time your team spent controlling the point plus a bonus based on how many points your team earned from the *other* points during the time mid was active, with that bonus rate increasing exponentially above 2 points owned. Ideally tuned such that even a team who never controls mid at all, but maintains 3 points throughout the duration, would receive comparable rewards to a pair of teams that had 2 points for the duration plus some amount of mid ownership; owning 4 points for the duration, or owning mid and at least 1 point for the duration, should be worth more than the previous examples. The idea being that rewarding teams for owning points during the mid fight will encourage players to not all just immediately zerg mid, and allow for other options.

Mid would need to be redesigned - lowered so that it takes less time to get up to the combat area, with the ramps and bridges widened to allow for more space (important now that AOE spam is so strong), and the upper platform would need a bit of a redesign. The active area should be about 30-40 yalms across (so 15-20yd radius), and there should be some fallen Dalamud debris around and inside the point (probably more fallen spike things, though much smaller than the huge ones on the exterior of the platform) to provide LOS breaks.

More debris, in general, should be found throughout the map to add more options when fights happen in the in-between areas, and I'd probably also add a bit of extra debris in the interior areas of the non-base nodes.

I think I'd also lower the point limit to 1200, without changing how many points are earned from kills and objectives. I think FL will be more palatable to the average player if they don't take quite so long. CC generally being 5-7 minutes is one of its biggest appeals for the more casual players, after all.

[Divinemights]

You must be new then
Slauter Secure mode was removed because up platform and OP is disconnected
Once a group of 4 pre made occupied and bait the respawners into somewhere else, up platform remainents will just get slaughtered.

During Slauter period, if a GC with 4 Ninjas can just screw up two other GCs by using teleport port on the ground smartly
It was a very bad design

I welcome the idea to remove invulnerability from respawn because that empowers my playstyle in Secure more.
I used to be able to kill respawners until veterans show up and push me back with number when there is no invulnerability
Right now unless I burst very quick I only got time to kill one and need to retrieve

[Dikatis]

You must be new then
Slauter Secure mode was removed because up platform and OP is disconnected
Once a group of 4 pre made occupied and bait the respawners into somewhere else, up platform remainents will just get slaughtered.

During Slauter period, if a GC with 4 Ninjas can just screw up two other GCs by using teleport port on the ground smartly
It was a very bad design

I welcome the idea to remove invulnerability from respawn because that empowers my playstyle in Secure more.
I used to be able to kill respawners until veterans show up and push me back with number when there is no invulnerability
Right now unless I burst very quick I only got time to kill one and need to retrieve

So your solution to map problems is to... allow spawn camping and prevent people from playing the game by snowballing via Battle high?

I don't see the benefit here.

[Gserpent]

So your solution to map problems is to... allow spawn camping and prevent people from playing the game by snowballing via Battle high?

I don't see the benefit here.

No, what they're saying is what would happen if they removed invulnerability... and why it was added in the first place, back in SB. Experienced players would just farm newbies over and over, literally spawn-camping them. Removing invulnerability is a horrible idea. That's what they were saying.

[Divinemights]

So your solution to map problems is to... allow spawn camping and prevent people from playing the game by snowballing via Battle high?

I don't see the benefit here.

No, that is OP's idea and I supported it and yes, I pretty much described what is going to happen if invulnerability is removed
18s spawn invulnerability and those 2 walls in Rival Wing are protectors installed to counter players type like myself.
Rival Wing used to be fun for me because I can play like that boring mode like Metal Gear Solid
Sneak in your base like Solid Snake and sabotage to result your team either died before boarding or mecha is already badly damaged

[Jettinson]

It seems to be made for games where you split smaller teams to handle flags and mid rather than going all units in 1 spot but rarely seem that and most of time ends up just feeding other teams.

And funny enough this map is probably the most comfortable to play as melee, there are great spots for ranged but since this map is much easier to disperse and have some cover, I get more opportunity to win battles/ambush, mid is the worst part though, the nodes just get melted and it screams orbital strike with everyone on the platform