Rewritten MSQ - Garlemald and EW

[anhaato]

LMAO poor oppressed Venat stans. Make a Reddit account if you want your pro-Venat echo chamber that badly.

Wouldn't that be the definition of entitled, tho, thinking you could write a better story ?

"This isn't my taste, I would've preferred if they did this." "Omg Karen!!!"

Here's the catch : I never said y'all were stupid. I said you weren't equipped and are uneducated, meaning you don't have the experience to understand why people like Endwalker. I never said it was brilliant storywriting, but it's decent enough, and it speaks about mental health, has grey characters all around, and that's more than what you'd ask of the average MMORPG. No need to read about Nietzsche or anyone, you just need empathy, but then again, Karens don't have any.

I didn't say you called us stupid. If you look back, you'll not see the word "stupid" appear in my post. I said you're putting yourself on a high horse by calling us uneducated and talking about how we're "unequipped" to handle the story (as if its power of friendship tropey-ness is anything groundbreaking), thus positing yourself as superior. And here we go with the thinly veiled sociopathy accusations. I have empathy for the ancients who Venat genocided, what does that make me?

I'm not provoking anyone, just reacting accordingly, but if that makes you feel better, sure, have me as the bad guy in your next fantasy...

Only three catches ? I'm disappointed.

This you?

[whitemoonflower]

If you are defending Venat in this forum, they will begin to attack you in every direction and keep explaining why Venat bad Emet good. It's useless to discuss EW lore in this forum...

How do you figure? Some of us were genuinely interested in OP's writing and simply shared our perspectives. Do I find the concept presented for Venat interesting to consider? Sure. Do I harbor any remote desire to "attack" those who prefer how she was written in EW? Not even slightly. No need for blanket accusations, all the more when there's your own attack that read rather unpleasantly:

Ew, stop putting my mom into a villains there!

What a "respectful" response to someone creatively expressing their ideas instead of simply agreeing to disagree and politely going on your way.

[Knot_D]

No need for blanket accusations, all the more when there's your own attack that read rather unpleasantly:



What a "respectful" response to someone creatively expressing their ideas instead of simply agreeing to disagree and politely going on your way.

How thin your skin is if you took that as "unpleasantly" response to OP's writing. But again, another proof to avoid "lore people".

[Moebious]

Really like the inclusion of more Garlean zones, and certain characters from there, which in one or another way had either been mentioned or even utilized prior to the expansion, and would have seemed more justified being in the 'final expansion of a 10 year story'.

The inclusion of Gaius, as an actual active character, would make for a better confrontations of perspectives, and perhaps even interesting reflections in regards to past and present. Also making Vrtra simulacrum an adult does seem far more logical, as it would have been far more interesting to have him fight alongside us, in both forms, rather being this childlike figure.

The Venat part of being a blood thirsty villain, didn't seem good at all for me though. And I don't even like Venat, like at all. But had she been, as she was but an antagonist, who did terrible things in the belief of a better future, would have been far more interesting, in my opinion. And then us coming to Elpis, could have been her confirmation of both of fears and 'soon to be' misguided actions, which would bold ill for all of the universe, from which would/could be touched by the 'Song of Oblivion'.

Would have liked to near the end be a confrontation of Venat/Hydaelynn, being that when we arrive, she understands all her faults and none of her methods were just in any way but that she would have done so regardless, because she still fears 'the plenty' far more, than what we got now.

With some fight of great reflections and recollections, along with acceptance and a final talk before she hands us the coordinates to Meteion, because in the end, she didn't tell anyone, for it would further her own belief/goal of a better future, a future of the 14 shards becoming something more, and her seeing them all as children, yet her powers being too weak to protect them all, so she had to make terrible decisions, as in sacrificing shards, for a chance for the others to survive till the very end. Or any form of more context, for reasons for doing what she did.

Or Venat being something akin to Jenova, would probably also have been very interesting as well. But I kind of think she would have worked great, had she also been a more misguided antagonist, who did things in good intentions, and in belief for the greater good, with full of regret of what she has wrought, by the time we come to her, and confront her.

Somewhere I like to think that Ishakawa, was planning to make Venat into such a character but Yoshi-P or directors wanted her to be this vomit inducing 'can do no wrong' Mary Sue instead, such a shame though.

Love the world and zone building of your story, and could see lots of continuation stories of each area after the conclusion, which would have been fantastic. Not to mention all these zones would have had more interesting themes going for them, than the rather bland, dreary, and boring ones we got this expansion. Well except Elpis of course, love the zone design, even if its where most of the bad story elements happened.

[whitemoonflower]

How thin your skin is if you took that as "unpleasantly" response to OP's writing. But again, another proof to avoid "lore people".

I wouldn’t call it pleasant. But you’ve gone from, “Everyone here will attack you if you defend Venat,” to “Everyone who discusses lore should be avoided.” From extreme to extreme. A differing opinion doesn’t immediately equate to “attacking” someone. Venat is a character. Regardless of how we perceive how she was written/rewritten, we can still be respectful about it.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I wouldn’t call it pleasant. But you’ve gone from, “Everyone here will attack you if you defend Venat,” to “Everyone who discusses lore should be avoided.” From extreme to extreme. A differing opinion doesn’t immediately equate to “attacking” someone. Venat is a character. Regardless of how we perceive how she was written/rewritten, we can still be respectful about it.

They may be extreme but they're grounded in things seen often here. Expressing you like aspects of the game that the loud folks here hate is a quick way to get you crapped on. Or folks will just call your standards low or accuse you of holding the game back. Respect on these forums only seems to come when you agree with folks about what they dislike.

Just saying...anhaato is a prime contender for what I'm talking about, yet you don't see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out for being toxic and disrespectful. I can only think of one reason why.

[Lauront]

*snip*

I don't think anyone is going to take you particularly seriously with the attitude you have, when in the same breath you're calling people 'uneducated' but whining about "karens" and "swearing", as if this plot is particularly deep or intelligent. Anhaato understands the story quite well based on discussions I've had with him. Certainly better than the "average Joe" who thinks that Venat scene is a literal, accurate depiction of what happened, or that Zodiark is a blood god. But, you are just here to berate the heretics. I understand.

Or Venat being something akin to Jenova, would probably also have been very interesting as well. But I kind of think she would have worked great, had she also been a more misguided antagonist, who did things in good intentions, and in belief for the greater good, with full of regret of what she has wrought, by the time we come to her, and confront her.

I also think there was scope for them to do something like this, e.g. as outlined here.

Somewhere I like to think that Ishakawa, was planning to make Venat into such a character but Yoshi-P or directors wanted her to be this vomit inducing 'can do no wrong' Mary Sue instead, such a shame though.

There is nothing confirming it, per se, but... there's telltale signs, IMO.

[anhaato]

Someone comes in here trying to talk to us like we’re illiterate peons for not liking the story/Venat, and then we don’t take it lying down it’s “oh my goddddd can’t we just defend Venat in peace without being attacked wah wah wah” like, no, not if that’s how you’re gonna act about it. Quite simple. Be a normal person about it and we’ll converse with you like one.

[TaleraRistain]

They may be extreme but they're grounded in things seen often here. Expressing you like aspects of the game that the loud folks here hate is a quick way to get you crapped on. Or folks will just call your standards low or accuse you of holding the game back. Respect on these forums only seems to come when you agree with folks about what they dislike.

Just saying...anhaato is a prime contender for what I'm talking about, yet you don't see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out for being toxic and disrespectful. I can only think of one reason why.

This is basically it. It's not a matter of "I disliked X or Y and here is my reasoning" and keeping it centered around themselves. It's "I don't like this and YOU shouldn't either and you're low or base or uncultured or don't care about the game if you don't feel the same". That's not debating in good faith. That's just trying to ram your personal opinion down other people's throats.

[Theodric]

It's quite fascinating that a poster who referred to people wanting consequences in the story as 'psychopaths' and another who branded a certain female miqo'te to be a 'parasite' are pretending to be so hard done by.