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  1. #1
    Player
    aveyond-dreams's Avatar
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    Fenris Pendragon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Well, that made for an enjoyable read! I like pretty much everything that you proposed and I think such a direction would have truly done justice for the Ancients and the Garleans alike. It also captured a lot of what pulled me into the setting back in the days of ARR and HW.

    My only suggestion would be to perhaps have Regula's blade play a part in the confrontation with Varis. Mostly to give some pay off to the scrapped thread that was Regula's dying words. Upon seeing the blade, the part of Varis that managed to resist would be emboldened or some such. A little cliche, perhaps, but it'd be a good way to tie off the loose end and maybe later have a follow up where it is revealed that Regula had a son who survived the chaos consuming Garlemald and vows to become a good soldier.
    Thank you! I would probably place a potential son of Regula’s on the city outskirts or somewhere in the inner city, probably trying to protect his own group of survivors. By some means, he would have obtained his father’s gunblade and potentially may have assisted in rescuing the recaptured Svetlana at this point in the rewrite. Since Regula and Varis are roughly the same age, I imagine his son would consequently be the same age as Zenos. However, the revelation of him being Regula’s son and the sword being Regula’s gunblade would be uncovered after the battle against Anima -

    An alteration to account for all this would be Svetlana regaining her senses while unsupervised and laments her actions of killing both Gaius and Al-Cid. Having lost the love of her life and succumbing to thoughts of suicide, she steals the gunblade from Regula’s son in order to arm herself. She heads to the palace with one final mission in mind: aid the WoL in their fight against whatever horrors lie within and then leap.

    She would navigate the tower using all the survival techniques she learned from Thancred up to that point and arrive with the gunblade during the battle against Anima. Using it against the transformed Varis restores a degree of his sentience, enough to project an image of his former self where he declares his resolve. The phantoms of former officials, Regula included, bear witness to the event and entrust the future to Svetlana as the primal shuts itself down.

    Perhaps in spite of all this, she would still try to leap only to be stopped by Thancred. There, he would again promise to keep her safe if she accepts him into her service, which she does. In any case this would certainly give Thancred a more grounded and heroic role as well instead of...becoming atmosphere in Ultima Thule. In hindsight I still can’t believe that zone really happened. Regula’s son would follow soon afterwards and the other characters present would react with shock at the revelation of his parentage, and the true significance of the gunblade. Naturally Svetlana would return it to the son and assign him to work with Jullus on continued rescue efforts around the capitol.

    Perhaps another way would have been to tie in the plot surrounding the gunblade and leave Jullus as is except for the surprise revelation of him being Regula’s son towards the end? Given Regula’s association with the Sapphire Weapon...his son having blue hair would not have been outside the realm of possibility.
    (2)
    Авейонд-сны


  2. #2
    Player
    MikkoAkure's Avatar
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    Midi Ajihri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Yeah, no worries. I think some sites have made room for new stuff by getting rid of older interviews since there's a few I remember reading that I haven't been able to find despite knowing exactly what phrase to put into a search engine in order to get them to appear. I set out to bookmark some for a while but there's honestly so many that it became too much work. Especially when accounting for different language variants.
    I wasn't able to find the interview, but it does say in the EE that female heirs in the Imperial Court have no claim to the throne and are titled "wir". The emperor's mom and wife get to be "yae" but that's still on the same level as all male members of the royal family who are listed as being in the actual line of succession, which seems to imply male-only inheritance. So I don't believe Gaius would recommend Svetlana unless he were desperate or he happened to be very progressive. Then there the matter of the remaining legions. As we've seen multiple times, except for the 1st legion, the rest are more loyal to their legatus than to the throne.


    On the topic of Svetlana, I just realized that would be a Hrothgar name. There's even a name example in the Hrothgar naming conventions thread that starts with "Svet", which is a pan-Slavic word for "light", which pulls from the cultural pool that Hrothgar use. And there's also her actions. It seems to be a bit out-of-character for the game's theme to have a "benevolent" Imperial character decide that the conquered territories are better off with the Garlean Empire considering a whole expansion was spent on their liberation. And then cartoonishly out-of-character to blame atrocities on the Senate just because OP doesn't like republics.

    It also appears that the WoL basically does nothing in the first of the two expansions laid out. A story where we go back to being the mute do-nothing feels like a step back from Shadowbringers where a lot of the appeal was the fact that we were actually the main character. Instead, that spot has been replaced with yet another in the line of important MSQ blonde girls after Minfilia, Ysayle (ish), Lyse, and Minifilia, so yay for consistency at least?

    That's changed in the 2nd half of the OP but the rest just feels like a rant post because they don't like Venat. We already see her at the very end of Shadowbringers and that characterization doesn't fit in with the post. Let alone our interactions with Hydaelyn elsewhere in the game.
    (8)

  3. #3
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    IkaraGreydancer's Avatar
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    Ikara Graydancer
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    Midgardsormr
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    Quote Originally Posted by anhaato View Post
    So there's this little activity called reading, it's typically recommended before you respond to a written post. No matter which course of action he chose it was going to be bad.



    Personally, and this is just me, just my honest opinion, I think the best option is preventing the sacrifices happening in the first place by telling the truth. Try calling me dumb after you've actually read my post, I know it might be hard for you but I promise it's possible.
    You often speak as of you know her being fully open with everyone would just automatically fix the issue. NOBODY knows what would've happened if she did tell the Ancients. She already had apprehension about telling Hermes as she felt her may turn on them and not help them figure out that things were destabilizing. The story could go a 100 different ways there yet the one she choose resulted in us having a game to begin with. You don't have to like it, but it IS why the WoL is even a thing. Yall already got your option to say Venat wasnt justified in game. Is that not enough?

    Also iirc wasn't it confirmed the Ancients would end up like the Final Dead Ends world if they did continue on their own path?
    (15)

  4. #4
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    anhaato's Avatar
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    A'nhaato Tia
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    Quote Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer View Post
    You often speak as of you know her being fully open with everyone would just automatically fix the issue. NOBODY knows what would've happened if she did tell the Ancients. She already had apprehension about telling Hermes as she felt her may turn on them and not help them figure out that things were destabilizing. The story could go a 100 different ways there yet the one she choose resulted in us having a game to begin with. You don't have to like it, but it IS why the WoL is even a thing. Yall already got your option to say Venat wasnt justified in game. Is that not enough?
    Nope! And fuck closed time loops!
    (5)

  5. #5
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    Rulakir's Avatar
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    Sajah Lane
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    Quote Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer View Post
    Yall already got your option to say Venat wasnt justified in game. Is that not enough?
    As someone who has not completed the Omega raids, no, I did not get that option. Having nuance that was sorely needed throughout 6.0 locked behind side content from 2 expansions ago isn't my idea of addressing the issue. Nor is one dialog option adequate, especially not when her codex entry is a laughably glowing review that may as well have been written by one of the lopporits.

    Also iirc wasn't it confirmed the Ancients would end up like the Final Dead Ends world if they did continue on their own path?
    It was stated it was Venat's belief that was the future of the Ancients.
    (7)

  6. #6
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    IkaraGreydancer's Avatar
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    Ikara Graydancer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    As someone who has not completed the Omega raids, no, I did not get that option. Having nuance that was sorely needed throughout 6.0 locked behind side content from 2 expansions ago isn't my idea of addressing the issue. Nor is one dialog option adequate, especially not when her codex entry is a laughably glowing review that may as well have been written by one of the lopporits.



    It was stated it was Venat's belief that was the future of the Ancients.
    Needed is again subjective as many folks don't feel that's the case. If what we got wasn't adequate what would be then? All the npcs going around condemning her? A whole quest line talking about how wrong she was n how evil it was? Outside of an entire rewrite there is no satisfying you guys unfortunately. It's just so weird, I didn't like Vanet after the reveal of the sundering n such initially yet the npcs being ok with it never bothered me as I don't need my feelings reciprocated from a game. I hold my own feelings. I'd be 100% on board if she reveled in the chaos that came about due to her choices but she's never been like that. She made a tough choice as did Hades and as did Hermes. All are justified for different reasons and I'm happy the game allowed me to express this even if briefly
    (16)

  7. #7
    Player
    IkaraGreydancer's Avatar
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    Ikara Graydancer
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    Quote Originally Posted by anhaato View Post
    Nope! And fuck closed time loops!
    Like I and many others have said. You don't have to like it. Throwing tantrums and being dickish won't change nor "fix" that
    (19)

  8. #8
    Player
    anhaato's Avatar
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    A'nhaato Tia
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    Quote Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer View Post
    Like I and many others have said. You don't have to like it. Throwing tantrums and being dickish won't change nor "fix" that
    I really don't care. I'm not going to behold myself to some made up standards until the end of time when I've spent as much time as I have being eloquent and succinct with my criticisms. Whether or not you think I've done enough of that is irrelevant to me.
    (4)
    Last edited by anhaato; 06-28-2022 at 10:06 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    aveyond-dreams's Avatar
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    Fenris Pendragon
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikkoAkure View Post
    It seems to be a bit out-of-character for the game's theme to have a "benevolent" Imperial character decide that the conquered territories are better off with the Garlean Empire considering a whole expansion was spent on their liberation. And then cartoonishly out-of-character to blame atrocities on the Senate just because OP doesn't like republics.

    It also appears that the WoL basically does nothing in the first of the two expansions laid out. A story where we go back to being the mute do-nothing feels like a step back from Shadowbringers where a lot of the appeal was the fact that we were actually the main character. Instead, that spot has been replaced with yet another in the line of important MSQ blonde girls after Minfilia, Ysayle (ish), Lyse, and Minifilia, so yay for consistency at least?

    That's changed in the 2nd half of the OP but the rest just feels like a rant post because they don't like Venat. We already see her at the very end of Shadowbringers and that characterization doesn't fit in with the post. Let alone our interactions with Hydaelyn elsewhere in the game.
    I have already explained in the rewrite how disastrous and irresponsible it would be to turn over some of these territories to their respective Ilberds and potential Thordans. The Grand Duchess is not a blind idealogue and quite frankly I do not care for backwards rules regarding what rank women may or may not attain when half the men are either slain, tempered, or missing. She has a working and amicable relationship with the people of the conquered territories along with her native Garleans because of her charity – as in charitable actions like volunteering as a medic, spending time with them, etc. Given the choice, the majority of these people would entrust themselves over to her care instead of these rebel warlords.

    I thought having a Celes type character would be more palatable than a Larsa for a playerbase that had to put up with 8 years of Alphinaud. Having this character with similarities to Celes allowed me to bring out the Locke in Thancred and give him a proper arc by extension. In any case I would also remind you that the Archadian Imperial Senate from FFXII quite literally murdered the emperor after having orchestrated the deaths of several of his other male heirs. Evil moves in packs. It takes a lot more courage to single-headedly take top control back of a country that has by this point lost its way. I’m sorry that my style of handling political writing was not to your liking, I fundamentally disagree on the point that Sharlayan democracy spreading would be a good thing for the world (especially when Sharlayan was up to several shady things before Endwalker further declawed the nation.) You probably would have disliked it even more if I had fleshed out Rozarria to the degree I originally wanted, given that it too is a former empire.

    Addressing your statements regarding Venat, in this rewrite she effectively tempered the WoL and has done so many times throughout history to prevent him from potentially being tempered by Zodiark and obtaining the blessing of darkness that would shatter the Mothercrystal in which she has hid herself inside. I strongly feel that playing up the fallen angel and traitor angle makes for a more interesting and entertaining experience than the way in which Venat was handled in the MSQ. Again, agree to disagree. Venat in either case is still the greatest deceiver and manipulator in all of history, and unworthy of the mantle of goddess.

    Lastly, yes I didn’t put too many words in the WoL’s mouth or too many actions in their hands because I was too focused on trying to make use of the cast’s strengths and applying them to appropriate situations. This is what felt natural, given that it’s an MMORPG, you’re supposed to fill in some of the blanks here. I don’t think this is an unreasonable expectation.
    (4)
    Авейонд-сны


  10. #10
    Player
    MikkoAkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams View Post
    In any case I would also remind you that the Archadian Imperial Senate from FFXII quite literally murdered the emperor after having orchestrated the deaths of several of his other male heirs. Evil moves in packs. It takes a lot more courage to single-headedly take top control back of a country that has by this point lost its way. I’m sorry that my style of handling political writing was not to your liking, I fundamentally disagree on the point that Sharlayan democracy spreading would be a good thing for the world (especially when Sharlayan was up to several shady things before Endwalker further declawed the nation.) You probably would have disliked it even more if I had fleshed out Rozarria to the degree I originally wanted, given that it too is a former empire.
    Garlemald is not Archades.

    The Senate was an advisory committee split between the Optimates and the Populares who didn't exactly work with each other so I don't understand how or why they could collectively do evil together. Especially since only the Optimates seemed to support the emperor. Then there were the Populares, who already existed in the game, and were written to be sympathetic by being against the Empire's conquests but went through the proper channels and just suggested reforms until they began to be purged by Varis and their supporters got gassed. Besides, I don't know how you consider them to be "Sharlayan style democracy" when Garlemald was a republic for ~600 years with no Sharlayan influence at all until Ascians got a hold of them and made them an empire. Landis was another republic in Ilsabard that had no Sharlayan influence.

    If you want your "evil" force that assassinates nobles and kills civilians, look no further than the Lemures in the Reaper storyline who tried to assassinate Solus for trying to conquer lands that had nothing to do with the original Garlean goal. Or Eula who killed her dad and some others and was supported by Solus because of it. Or Titus, Varis, Nerva, and Zenos who mobilized their legions to fight for the throne and destroyed Garlemald over it. The scheming nobles playing their game of thrones and the actual assassination force that exists in-game are more likely culprits to be doing dirty deeds than a group of elected civil servants. The Senate was already established in the game by the time of Stormblood to be a potentially moderating force so unless you want to re-characterize Maxima and the Populares, it's just plain odd to do what you did.

    It doesn't feel like your rewrites would fix anything. It just feels like FFXII randomly stapled into the FFXIV MSQ at best, and fanfiction that ignores existing lore in order to satisfy your preferences at worst.
    (19)
    Last edited by MikkoAkure; 06-28-2022 at 11:07 AM.

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