Rewritten MSQ - Garlemald and EW

[Lauront]

Especially since, in this person's own words:

I said you weren't equipped and are uneducated, meaning you don't have the experience to understand why people like Endwalker.

[...]

No need to read about Nietzsche or anyone, you just need empathy, but then again, Karens don't have any.

[KizuyaKatogami]

They may be extreme but they're grounded in things seen often here. Expressing you like aspects of the game that the loud folks here hate is a quick way to get you crapped on. Or folks will just call your standards low or accuse you of holding the game back. Respect on these forums only seems to come when you agree with folks about what they dislike.

Just saying...anhaato is a prime contender for what I'm talking about, yet you don't see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out for being toxic and disrespectful. I can only think of one reason why.

I just have to share my thoughts here. I find it extremely ironic you pointing out the whole “don’t see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out.” You’re right, this is a pretty prominent problem however considering i’ve been on the opposite end of it i can say it’s not absent on either side. In fact i think i’ve seen it worse on the other side, where i’ll literally be insulted or worse, i’ll defend myself, and one of the people who supports the agitators arguments goes after me and calls me out and not the person who shares their views. As for everything else you’ve said, as i’ve brought up before, i think you’re the last person to be trying to correct or critique someone considering you’ve called people parasites and numerous posters have come forth as having problems with you.

[CrownySuccubus]

I just have to share my thoughts here. I find it extremely ironic you pointing out the whole “don’t see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out.” You’re right, this is a pretty prominent problem however considering i’ve been on the opposite end of it i can say it’s not absent on either side. In fact i think i’ve seen it worse on the other side, where i’ll literally be insulted or worse, i’ll defend myself, and one of the people who supports the agitators arguments goes after me and calls me out and not the person who shares their views. As for everything else you’ve said, as i’ve brought up before, i think you’re the last person to be trying to correct or critique someone considering you’ve called people parasites and numerous posters have come forth as having problems with you.

Almost everybody in this thread, including yours truly, has had "numerous posters" that have problems with them. That's kind of the nature of forums where tribalism is common. Everybody gets the dogpiling eventually, whether deserved or not.

[Kuritzkale]

Almost everybody in this thread, including yours truly, has had "numerous posters" that have problems with them. That's kind of the nature of forums where tribalism is common. Everybody gets the dogpiling eventually, whether deserved or not.

You've posted 477 times since march?! Of course you have people that have problems with you, when you're posting multiple comments every day... cast a wider net and catch more fish, right?

[CrownySuccubus]

You've posted 477 times since march?! Of course you have people that have problems with you, when you're posting multiple comments every day... cast a wider net and catch more fish, right?

It's...really not that much? Hell, I often go for days without actually posting.

Hell, the poster above my last post alone has 3,382 posts since Feb 2021. That's an average of 199 posts per month compared to my 119.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I just have to share my thoughts here. I find it extremely ironic you pointing out the whole “don’t see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out.” You’re right, this is a pretty prominent problem however considering i’ve been on the opposite end of it i can say it’s not absent on either side. In fact i think i’ve seen it worse on the other side, where i’ll literally be insulted or worse, i’ll defend myself, and one of the people who supports the agitators arguments goes after me and calls me out and not the person who shares their views. As for everything else you’ve said, as i’ve brought up before, i think you’re the last person to be trying to correct or critique someone considering you’ve called people parasites and numerous posters have come forth as having problems with you.

It doesnt exactly bother me that a few people here have issues with me. Plenty of others don't n I've actively told folks to put me on ignore. This whole deal is ofc a matter of perspective. Different folks will see and experience different things here. None are inherently wrong imo hence why I won't nor would tell you you're wrong in what you've experience here.

Also since you seem to like to bring it up, care to explain the context of why I called one person (not people) a parasite? Context means a great deal and you seem to always leave that out to make me look bad.

Also I challenge you, bring up every post that I've made a go at someone and do the same for a person ive mentioned. Compare the 2 and then tell me who is the worst offender here.

[TaleraRistain]

I just have to share my thoughts here. I find it extremely ironic you pointing out the whole “don’t see anyone who shares his thoughts calling him out.” You’re right, this is a pretty prominent problem however considering i’ve been on the opposite end of it i can say it’s not absent on either side. In fact i think i’ve seen it worse on the other side, where i’ll literally be insulted or worse, i’ll defend myself, and one of the people who supports the agitators arguments goes after me and calls me out and not the person who shares their views. As for everything else you’ve said, as i’ve brought up before, i think you’re the last person to be trying to correct or critique someone considering you’ve called people parasites and numerous posters have come forth as having problems with you.

It absolutely is on all sides (both isn't really relevant since there are sometimes multiple sides). That said, the message isn't any less true based on the messenger. There are instances where instead of debating in good faith, people just try to shout each other down. And that's just not constructive. Maybe we can all try to use this as a jumping off point to try to debate with each more in good faith.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Almost everybody in this thread, including yours truly, has had "numerous posters" that have problems with them. That's kind of the nature of forums where tribalism is common. Everybody gets the dogpiling eventually, whether deserved or not.

Well that’s my point though. It’s not a one sided thing a majority of the people in the community do it. People naturally will ignore the horrible things the people on their side say and object and intervene when someone on the opposing side is defending themselves. In the case of where it’s involved me i specifically point out the double standard and get no response seemingly because they know what they’re doing is wrong and have no excuse for it other than “they support my points therefore i need to white knight for them.”

[CrownySuccubus]

Well that’s my point though. It’s not a one sided thing a majority of the people in the community do it. People naturally will ignore the horrible things the people on their side say and object and intervene when someone on the opposing side is defending themselves. In the case of where it’s involved me i specifically point out the double standard and get no response seemingly because they know what they’re doing is wrong and have no excuse for it other than “they support my points therefore i need to white knight for them.”

I'm going to be honest -- I don't ever recall you doing it. Let alone for people "on your side". Usually, when I see "double standards" called out, it's based on superficial similarities on things that aren't comparable as a "Whatabout".

Granted, I'm not in every thread at once and I'm speaking from personal POV, but still....based on that, definitely not.

[Theodric]

I've commented on this issue before:

At the end of the day, it's just a video game. One many of us are varying degrees of passionate about, certainly, though I personally don't care for rivalries to form over something that is entirely fictional. As such, my stance has ever been to agree to disagree where common ground cannot be found. I don't care for endless arguments over morality and I'd like to think I've made it perfectly clear that if anyone has a problem with me, then they're very welcome to come and talk it out in a civil manner.

I like working out and discussing the 'how' and 'why' things happen in the way that they do in any given story or historical event, though my personal preferences drift towards characters and factions that have lofty stakes over those that have everything work out to their benefit most of the time.

One thing I noticed, however, was that some pretty spiteful and nasty accusations were aimed at anyone who ever dared to speak up in favour of the antagonists. This included death threats, homophobic comments and other unpleasant elements. Given that the offending posts were deleted, however, then such will have to be taken with a pinch of salt - though I'd like to think those who are being genuine and who have been around for a while will be aware of what I'm speaking of. Especially since some of the offending comments leaked into Reddit, Twitter and certain Discord servers.
The most fascinating thing I observed was that certain posters would repeatedly launch thinly veiled attacks and sometimes direct personal attacks at fans of the antagonists, implying all manner of horrible things about their person and real world morality. When finally those being assaulted had enough, even a minor quip in response would be treated as some deeply horrific crime and personal attack.

I will say that things have improved somewhat since then. Right around the same time that the game itself revealed that, yes, actually there was more to the Ascians and Garleans all along.

Ultimately any given individual is going to have their personal preferences and interests. I've never suggested that anyone has to like specific characters or factions. I only ask that the same courtesy is extended to others in turn.

In closing, I'd also note that the game attracts players from many different countries, cultures, backgrounds and belief systems. We all have different life experiences, so that is going to influence what we like and we don't like.

I bolded the most relevant portion since that's often the most applicable and it extends to many other issues such as criticism of the story being seen as worthy of personal attacks.

Furthermore, the concept of 'whataboutism' is almost always simply used to deflect from the fact that someone is going around deliberately provoking posters only to proclaim that any pushback in response is the worst thing ever and that any mention of the act leading to the response is somehow suddenly irrelevant even if it took place in the same thread.