Which part of summoner's rotation am I meant to find satisfying?

[fulminating]

Why? It's abundantly clear that the pre-ew summoner had both a more coherent design philosophy and more realised gameplay.

[aveyond-dreams]

Why? It's abundantly clear that the pre-ew summoner had both a more coherent design philosophy and more realised gameplay.

Then by all means start a megathread asking for a total reversion to Shadowbringers Summoner. I hope that you have as much support as you need to accomplish the changes you request, and if I see this job take yet another turn in the wrong direction then I'm switching back to Red Mage.

I'm half-tempted to make the megathread myself, just to see what reactions it would get.

[Saimeren]

Let's not act like the job wasn't actually broken before this change. Pet AI is and always has been terrible (in most MMOs) and that was a factor in the changes they made. All the DPS had to be shifted to the caster for it to be more consistent. Sure, there could be room for improvement, but it works way better than it did before 6.0. So it's not for you. Oh well. Over a dozen other options exist.

The summoner community before 6.0: Ugh, pet A.I. sucks. I push the button and there's a good chance that the egi just won't perform the attack! I'd rather the spells get moved to the caster!

The summoner community after 6.0: Ugh, my carbuncle just stands there and doesn't do anything. Can we have it attack and give it a few spells so it's not useless?!

Some people are silly.

Personally, I love summoner right now. My dopamine rush comes from summoning Titan and doing the Titan phase because I enjoy the OGCD weaving and the faster rotation that makes it feel like most other MMO's with their faster GCD's. Titan is also a really cool primal and I love his opening attack. Pretty light is pretty. I also live for 60k ahk morn's. Just feels good to open with massive burst.


However, I 100% understand people's frustrations at essentially losing their job. Summoner is nothing like it was prior to the rework. They definitely should have handled this differently.

What they should have done is renamed old summoner, removed the primal theme, changed the pet to just a carbuncle and focused the job primarily on the DoT's with the filler dealing more damage based on how many DoT's the caster has out.

From there they could have given everyone who had a pre 6.0 summoner at L70+ a free job boost for these new summoner for those that wanted to play the new job that is post 6.0 summoner. (Which would be a completely separate job to the old summoner which has now been renamed to prevent confusion.)

But let's be real. Upset or not, coming here constantly complaining about the job isn't going to get you anywhere. Old summoner is gone and it's not coming back unless there are drastic changes made to the development team. (Ie. The removal of Yoshi-P.)

All you're doing is being miserable at this point. Either learn to enjoy Summoner as is, or play something else. There are plenty of job options out there for you.

[Ryaz]

I dont know. I really enjoy SMN. The visuals are great, the rotation is smooth. I like having to choose which primal I aspect I call out based on mechanics and movement. It's actually replaced RDM as my favorite caster.

My only real complaint with the class is that you can't use the shield unless Carbuncle is out, which means a lot of the time it's not available when you actually need it.

[Xtrasweettea]

That's too bad, anyway, those of us who were playing FFXI around the time FFXIV launched looked at FFXIV Summoner and laughed and cried at how shockingly bad it was. It missed the mark. I am not old enough to claim to have played FFXI at its all-time peak but I played it when they finally figured out what to do with their classes. I am absolutely going to compare the two, because one of them got the fantasy and general gameplay right and the other still hasn't delivered on both after 8 years.

You're making a bad comparison. You're comparing an EoL job against a job in another game that is still living and growing. Completely ignoring the history of FFXI's SMN during FFXI life because it breaks your fantasy is not going to help you win anyone over or at least understand and tolerate your reasoning.

I was able to - in the current version of FFXI - go out and get most of my summons by level 20 and then used them at level 70 to get a few more, and I'm still working on getting Siren. The job that I played was on point in terms of fantasy and the general way in which it played. That isn't asking too much, but it apparently it was when the warlocks had the run of the place and twisted Summoner into the mess it became in Shadowbringers. Anyone could tell that it was going nowhere, glad to see the people in charge of it finally realized that after spending a decade running in the wrong direction.

You're also talking to someone who did the mini trials with shit SMN. Not with EoL SMN. It was easier and faster to solo the level 75 trials on RDM. I even got other SMNs their pets that way.

"Still more viable and playable as its own class" I'm sorry but out of all the classes that were good at soloing pre-Trusts in FFXI, Summoner was still my go to over Red Mage. Red Mage is still good for soloing granted, but certainly not better or more fun than the levels I spent wandering the world with Shiva at my side.

Round-about-way of saying "I never solo'd anything as a RDM and I don't know how."

The people who still feel wronged over the deception need to get over it and the conversation needs to be brought back into the hands of people who actually want to be Summoners, whether they want it pet-centric/gems/demis/whatever - we need the people who still pine over old Summoner to move on. That kind of gameplay is not coming back to this job, there are no male Viera numbers of them mad enough to cause a reversion. The less their ideas are entertained, the better off new Summoner will be. Hopefully they get their Necromancer or Time Mage someday, but until then I have little regard for their takes.

Current SMN isn't "pet centric." It's stance dancing between different stances that uses "summons" to force the stance change. Change a stance, your buttons change colors, you get different animations. Maybe a party buff here and there. When you does-y-do enough times, you can go into a new stance temporarily as your reward.

Surely this is the pinnacle of that summoner fantasy.

[Zarkovitch]

Whenever you summon phoenix or bahamut and playing speed racer for that last gcd.

[fulminating]

Whenever you summon phoenix or bahamut and playing speed racer for that last gcd.

I was quite fond of that on warrior prior to the inner release change, I'll try and focus on that feeling next time I'm on summoner.

[Payadopa]

The old SMN was absolutely terrible. I'm glad it's gone. But I agree with the new SMN being too easy. But that's SE's MO for the last few years.

[Teno]

The current strongest selling point of summoner is HoH solo at this point. You've got the core kit with Bahamut and the new gameplay (and its pacing) lends itself pretty well to the burst-and-go style of the mode, and it's actually quite fun. Other than that, well...

[Shiroe]

wierd, my favourite Smn was in HW.., worst Blm in HW.., now in EW, i