Fixing Every Healer Job

[Shurrikhan]

That depends on what else is adjusted really.
What if SCH's shields were adjusted to make them advantageous enough to warrant using Covenant over Dawn or Blessing? Say that Addlo now reflects back 140 potency worth of damage on hit, as an example. Most shields would be gone on 1-2 hits from a boss. Between the mitigation and buff to the shield granted by Covenant, if that was able to make it 2-3 hits instead, would that not be worth it?

I like your thinking there, but unless an affected shield would otherwise have just barely broken on the second hit, nothing in the order of 10% bonus healing raidwide (Covenant), or even a Divine Seal (+30% Spell healing) for oneself is going to make a 50-200% increase in hits taken before said shield breaks.

More simply, though, I think you'd simply have to rework Covenant. As you'd likely want to do with Aetherpact anyways (e.g., to cost 10 gauge per 3s tick of healing thus provided). I'm also unsure if I like Seraph being on there at all, considering it grants more than 75 gauge worth of resource (the benefits, essentially, of all the other spender options) and thus becomes a non-option, a mere CD that at best has some (arguably wonky) margin play by which one can't use other spenders when coming up on Seraph's CD because the latter so outweighs the others' efficiency.

Finally, the abilities still have CDs so isn't not as though the abilities will even conflict with each other any more than they currently do.

That seems a cop-out, unless said CDs are at least less than they are now.

Imagine, for instance, if Lustrate, Sacred Soil, Indom, Excog, and Energy Drain all had CDs of a minute or more. Due to attaching Broil to its generators (I'd have to hope at a mere 5 per, at least, if you don't want it capping in under 20 seconds), your earlier spitball generation would cap the Faerie gauge roughly per 30 seconds, while likewise offering 3 actions worth (25, 25, and either 50) of spenders from cap. You'd be unable to spend the resource as quickly as you build it if you left no (nearly) CD-less options.

Or, more generally put... If the SCH can't leverage the situational advantages of one ability over its alternatives (or avoid being budgeted less advantageous abilities) beyond what it could before then why have the shared resource at all? If the system doesn't cause new considerations (i.e., conflicts and affordances), leaving us just doing as we did before, then it will be mere bloat.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

Well, with Dissipation no longer granting a 20% heal boost, we could probably give that to Covenant to compensate and maybe increase the mitigation from 5% to 10%. I feel that lowering the CD of Covenant 60s would also be beneficial. Still might not be enough but since most "Heal" checks in the game nowadays are mitigation checks, it would still be a buff in that department to consider.

For Seraph to work on the Gauge, her abilities would probably need to be free to cast to justify it being on the gauge at all. Having her off the gauge, depending on if Consolation cost gauge or not, would still result in a 50 gauge cost for using Angel Whisper and Seraph Illumination so I don't really seem much of a difference whether she's on or off the gauge. Personally, I think Blessing should have turned to Consolation while Seraph is out but that would mean they'd cost gauge as well so I figured having her on the Gauge and just making her skills free to cast would be a good compromise but that's just me.

I imagine Fey Blessing is weak enough to where it could be lowered to a 30s CD without much issue; It's just a weaker Indom so I don't really understand why SE put it on a 60s CD to begin with, which is even more perplexing considering it started off costing gauge as well. Being on a 30s CD would allow it to be used more than Dawn or Covenant at least so you could somewhat stem the tide of overflow but Gauge generation was something that I was unsure of on the direction of which to go with. Originally, I was more for just having Aetherflow abilities no longer build up Gauge and just having DoTs and Broil build it up since that would generate quickly enough on its own that you'd always have enough gauge to continue using your fairy abilities without much issue. However, since I knew that newer players would be somewhat apprehensive to do much DPS when starting off, it would be harder for them to heal with SCH that I sort of haphazardly kept the Aetherflow aspect of it to at least help them out a bit, despite knowing it might be a bit more than could realistically be spent in that case. It was just a matter of, do I want to give an olive branch to new players, even if it came at some level of detriment to the design. Ultimately, I chose the olive branch.

[Shurrikhan]

Well, with Dissipation no longer granting a 20% heal boost

Ngl, I do not like the idea of a pet-purging ability doing nothing more than giving you a free pet ability when it comes back, especially when overflow is so high (enough for at least 4 spenders per minute).

I imagine Fey Blessing is weak enough to where it could be lowered to a 30s CD without much issue; It's just a weaker Indom

Again, even if you tie only Broils and DoTs applications to Fairy Gauge generation at half the current tick value, you'd generate 120 gauge per minute, enough to use Fey Blessing (which takes only 12.5 seconds' build-up) almost 5 times, while also further pushing Broil spam over heals (as Broil would now provide free healing that healing GCDs would not provide). You'd need to far more.

But the redundancy is also a significant issue. Do we really need both two Indoms (AF-Indom and FG-Indom)?

[Silver-Strider]

Ngl, I do not like the idea of a pet-purging ability doing nothing more than giving you a free pet ability when it comes back, especially when overflow is so high (enough for at least 4 spenders per minute).

That's assuming Dissipation would continue to dispel your fairy or anything of what it currently does. If DoTs return, SCH won't need the roundabout DPS gain that Dissipation currently gives thru Energy Drain so that it could be changed to do something else.

Again, even if you tie only Broils and DoTs applications to Fairy Gauge generation at half the current tick value, you'd generate 120 gauge per minute, enough to use Fey Blessing (which takes only 12.5 seconds' build-up) almost 5 times, while also further pushing Broil spam over heals (as Broil would now provide free healing that healing GCDs would not provide). You'd need to far more.

But the redundancy is also a significant issue. Do we really need both two Indoms (AF-Indom and FG-Indom)?

Looking at the average SCH on the forbidden site, they use Fairy Abilities roughly 20 times within a 7-8 minute fight.
So approximately 2.5 abilities per minute, meaning at minimum, that's 62.5 gauge used per minute and towards 112.5 on the high end of the scale. The average used would be 87.5 gauge a minute. 120 gauge generation a minute vs 87.5 gauge used per minute. Now, this is also not factoring in that Blessing and Covenant would have their CD halved, allowing for more usage as well. You could see an increase in usage go up to about 26-30 uses in a 7-8 minute fight. You'd be at around an average of 95-110 vs 120 gauge generated, making it just barely able to outpace the speed of being spent. Ofc, this is assuming 100% uptime. Any DoT that falls off or any Broil substituted with an Addlo/Succor drops that 120 gauge generated and do you think that your average SCH can have 100% uptime? Does every single SCH keep their DoT rolling 100% of the time or does it fall off for 1-2 seconds periodically? Does your average SCH not use the occasional Addlo or Succor? What about Addlo+Deployment on a mechanic? You used Covenant for a reason, right? Hell, just looking at some DSR data, you see SCHs using Succor and Addlo well into the double digits so why do you cling to this notion as though generating X amount of gauge per minute is somehow problematic?

It's virtually a non-issue, even theoretically.

I agree with the redundancy part but that's more a problem with Healer Design being over saturated to the nines with Healing abilities. Do you need both Indom and Blessing? Not necessarily but despite that, both skills are used pretty often enough to justify their coexistence.

[Shurrikhan]

So approximately 2.5 abilities per minute, meaning at minimum, that's 62.5 gauge used per minute and towards 112.5 on the high end of the scale.

Comparing 4 separate CDs to a shared spender system is comparing apples to oil tankers. You cannot draw blanket stats from the less constrained to apply acontextually to the more constrained system. The whole reason for the alternative system is to add complicators, no? Do not then leave them out.

The average used would be 87.5 gauge a minute.

And this is why they're not comparable without simulative context. Neither 80 or 90 gauge are spendable values threshold in your proposed system, only 75 or 100 (any sums of multiples of 25 and 50). If one generates less than is necessary to optimize a given CD strapped to the gauge, the CD is now effectively longer; meanwhile, if a CD is far longer than can be spent on competing

120 gauge generation a minute vs 87.5 gauge used per minute.

But your free play area, given the superiority of Seraph (worth more than triple any 25-gauge spender), and Dawn over Blessing, is actually only whatever remains. They are not separate anymore. You need to simulate that instead of just drawing blanket stats from purposely different systems.

Does every single SCH keep their DoT rolling 100% of the time...?

If you're giving gauge per tick, even at 5 gauge per Broil/DoT tick, you'd then have a max of 210 gauge generation per minute. A mere 2 DoT casts per minute would already net you 100 gauge. And, again, that's after having already halved the generation from 10 to 5.

Any DoT that falls off or any Broil substituted with an Addlo/Succor drops that 120 gauge generated and do you think that your average SCH can have 100% uptime?

Mate, you are the one who made Fey skills dependent on Broil spam. (Or DoT maintenance; it's hard to tell now because you're still using the 120/min value, down from 210, despite implying that DoT uptime would matter.) I'm under no obligation to evaluate whether the constraint you designed follows your intent. And as you've yet to really lay out any gameplay intent, I would not be able to do so anyways.

Hell, just looking at some DSR data, you see SCHs using Succor and Addlo well into the double digits so why do you cling to this notion as though generating X amount of gauge per minute is somehow problematic?

If your argument for constraining a kit is backhand excused by DSR healing alone, that is Yoshida-level BS.

You have yet to present why making Fey skills dependent on Broil spam (and/or DoT maintenance) is a good thing. You have yet to present why constraining the kit is a good thing. You have yet to present why tying restorative Fey magics to boiling/poisoning enemies even makes sense thematically. You have offered no affordances beyond a higher available frequency of Fey Blessing (albeit at cost -- except not really, because it's somehow fine if the gauge has overflow thereby overtunes the kit in full Broil-spam scenarios despite undertuning it in intensive healing scenarios), or I guess now Dawn, too (except, at competing cost).

That's a lot of not-great impact you're waving off on the mere basis that "We need a second gauge (for the sake a second gauge)!" (Or, that we need to revitalize the Fey Gauge, no matter the surrounding impact, rather than just addressing Aether Pact (and/or Fey Blessing, formerly its AoE variant.)

Pretend there's no gauge involved by which to get pissed at a UI element being used on relatively little. What gameplay impact do you want from this?
Every shared-resource and/or builder-spender system will have, and constrain gameplay towards, its particular incentives. So what are you hoping to accomplish from these beyond just throwing more stuff in to the "Other" basket so that Aetherpact feels less lonely / in need of correction?

Because right now you've just got at most a slightly greater frequency of lackluster Fey skills, at cost, that now have to be mindful of the time-until-refresh on Seraph -- all of which increases the value of Broil spam and, at best, overtunes the kit in high offensive uptime scenarios while likely making it clunkier for many, especially in more healing-intensive or when in less optimizing hands.

Do you need both Indom and Blessing? Not necessarily but despite that, both skills are used pretty often enough to justify their coexistence.

They're both used because they are superior and free, respectively.

Using Indom to use one fewer Succor has nearly three times the offensive value (through an extra Broil) of Energy Drain. If Soil and cohealer scheduled CDs have already been used, and one still needs an AoE heal, it will be taken over ED + Succor, every time. Fey Blessing, meanwhile, costs nothing anymore, rather than being the AoE Aetherpact option.


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Let me clear here: I do not think there is anything inherently wrong with constraining skills to a gauge. But the result of that change must then feel better than what we have now, and I'm not seeing that here.

I even rather like well-made gauges, due to the affordances and considerations (well, more like timing-interplay) they produce. The primary affordance, naturally, is the ability to exchange casts per minute of one skill into that of another, favoring whichever is least wasteful. It's worth noting, though, that the ability selection almost never takes more than two braincells (three if the gauge uses different ST->AoE breakpoints than the rest of the given job's kit); it instead simply produces a matter of margining (having X gauge by Y time), which can easily degrade to bar-watching if the rhythm of generation is not intuitive / able to be tracked by muscle memory.

Thematically, SCH is sort of an intersection between ability selection (AF spenders, with ED nerfed enough to be punished almost threefold for any use outside of overflow) and ability timing. But does making Fey skills compete for resource give us more, of interest, from ability selection than we lose in separable ability timing and general feeling of polish (such as per responsiveness, or in our current feeling of having our array of tools that do not blot each other out)? And is making the kit whose performance already varies most with healing requirements vary yet more with those healing requirements... a good idea? I could be convinced, but at present it looks like the far simpler solution is to drop the Stormblood gauge obsession, just put a stack count on the Aetherpact button itself, and call it a day, and/or maybe put Fey Blessing again share those stacks as an AoE alternative.