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  1. #1
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    20
    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70

    Suggestion: Gunlancer (Tank)

    Yoshi-P mentioned some time ago that SE might look at adding jobs that are not traditionally included in final fantasy games.

    With this in mind, and with a certain recently-released-in-the-west MMO having already broken the taboo of carbon copying Gunlance out of Monster Hunter, I think it would be cool to get Gunlancer as the next tank. We're sorely lacking in defense-themed tank classes (aside from paladin they are all "I'll brace the impact with my exposed vitals" style) and Gunlance's massive shield would level that out nicely. Of course, we're not due for a new tank class just yet anyway (next xpac will likely be two DPS: ranged physical + ranged magic).

    I've gone over the character limit on my rotation design but I've already spent the time writing it so I'll split it up into comments.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
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    20
    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Gunlancer design idea part 1:
    Single Target
    1. Quick Thrust (upgraded to QT + shot when loaded, consumes 1 Ammo)
    2. Uppercut thrust (upgraded to UT + shot when loaded, consumes 1 Ammo)
    3. Slam
    3a. Burst Fire (only available with 1 or more Ammo, consumes all remaining Ammo)
    3b. Quick Reload

    3a and 3b are OGCD's that highlight after using Slam. Quick Reload grants a full stack of ammo (2/3/4/5 as you get traits, detailed later), so you alternate quick reload and burst fire as your combo finishers. Burst fire is an AoE attack which does more damage to the first target. It hits multiple times depending on how much ammo you have.

    To augment the ammo mechanic, Reload would be available as a GCD (like formless fist). This is so you can begin a fight with full ammo, and fill downtime meaningfully. It would be tuned somehow so as not to be worth doing instead of a Quick Reload combo while in combat (maybe a cast time, or global recast).

    The ranged attack could have the gunlance scoop up some dirt/rocks from the ground and fire it as a projectile. I thought about just using long ammo but it would have to be a _very_ long laser beam for that to work with the range in FFXIV. Scooping up some random debris also would fit within the general comedy style of MH (and FFXIV), even though they don't do that in the game.
    (0)
    Last edited by RavenNoire; 06-18-2022 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Gunlancer design idea part 2:
    AoE (cones)
    1. Wide slash (+ a volley of shots while loaded, still only consumes 1 ammo)
    2. Shield Sweep (upgraded to include Wide Shot, needed this to balance ammo consumption rate with ST combo)
    3. Boost Slam (Boost yourself into the air with the gun and then slam down, cracking the earth)
    3a. Burst Fire
    3b. Quick Reload

    Burst fire and quick reload are the same two abilities as single target.

    ALL of the AoE attacks (including Burst Fire) are cones, so you don't need to reposition mid combo like old Warrior.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Gunlancer design idea part 3:
    Burst Window
    - Wyrmstake, a GCD at 120s cooldown that deals an initial hit and inflicts the "Wyrmstake" debuff to the target. While in effect, ammo damage is increased and an additional explosion effect occurs on the target. Ammo potency dealt to target (not regular attacks) is compiled during the effect, and again inflicted at the end of the window.

    - Heated Reload at 60s cooldown grants an additional row of 5 ammo that auto Direct Crits and is consumed before regular ammo.
    Burst fire can only use 1 ammo type at a time, but you can consume all 5 heated ammo with it.

    - On a shared cooldown with the Wyrmstake would be Wyvernfire Cannon, a cone AoE upfront nuke (maybe a trait can upgrade it to increase shot damage for a while after the initial hit, for parity with ST)
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Gunlancer design idea part 4:
    Gap Closers
    They have two gap closers:
    - Running Uppercut Thrust is on the GCD with a (60s) recast, and combos directly into Slam (with a trait). With this you can engage a fight with a gap closer and also go straight into a burst fire, or follow up a quick reload with a shorter combo into burst fire (useful during Wyrmstake).
    - Rocket Boost is OGCD and doesn't require a target. This allows you to use RUT on cooldown without having to worry about losing your ability to gap close, and also lets you gap close into places other tanks can't (such as out of aoe's or into stack markers).

    Mitigation
    Gunlancer's version of TBN would be Shield Bastion, where they hold up their shield during their primary combo, auto blocking incoming attacks and granting a shield each GCD attack (lasts 8 seconds). This changes the thrust animations to thrusting from behind the shield.

    Their version of Passage of Arms would be a zoned counter attack, providing everyone within a cone behind you auto block. When you get hit, the effect ends and you "soften the blow" by shooting whatever was "about to" hit you with a Wyvernfire blast. It doesn't deal damage, this is just for thematic reasons. This would be a chonky single hit damage reduction (block is pretty good) but would be worse than other tanks for multiple-hit attacks since it only affects the first instance of incoming damage.

    Not sure what to do about OT mitigation. Maybe they could have a discount Cover (thematically, "distracting" the enemy) which redirects 10% of damage to a party member to you, which you then take half of. You can use it on yourself to just get the 5% damage reduction.

    Nooooo idea what to do with the LB. Maybe they could wyvernfire blast the ground, which then returns as a ring of erupting fire that somehow mitigates damage? Idk i'm spitballing here. I would like it to return as erupting rocks but that wouldn't make sense in most boss arenas.

    The no-die button would be the superman dive, naturally. Maybe a shorter duration/cooldown Hallowed Ground.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
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    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Gunlancer design idea part 5:
    Traits (not in any particular order)
    - When you unlock Quick Reload you have an ammo capacity of 2, which you use on the upgraded quick thrust and uppercut thrust. When you unlock Burst Fire, your ammo capacity increases to 3, so you can use Burst fire after a QR combo. Later you get upgrades for 4 and 5 stacks, which effectively increase the damage of Burst Fire and by extension Wyrmstake.

    - 2/3 charges for Rocket Jump

    - Shield Bastion upgrades to include the shields per gcd

    - Upgrade to Wyvernfire Cannon to increase ammo damage to affected targets

    - Quick reload upgrades to also heal a little bit, for parity with other tanks' self healing in their primary combo

    - Upgrade Running Uppercut Thrust to combo into Slam or Boost Slam

    - Upgrade Running Uppercut Thrust to also enable immediate use of Quick Reload (not burst fire)

    - Upgrade Burst Fire to combo back into Slam if you used it with Heated Ammo

    - Upgrade Wyrmstake to reset the cooldown of Running Uppercut Thrust (so you can engage a fight with RUT without losing it for the burst window)
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    RavenNoire's Avatar
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    Character
    Raven Noire
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Gunlancer design idea part 6 (final)
    Notes
    - GCDs upgraded by ammo don't require an oGCD input, they just upgrade into being the combined attack. This is not to include Slam and Boost Slam, which do require oGCD input for Quick Reload and Burst Fire.

    - I don't think Quick Reload and Burst Fire should share a button, and my reasoning for this is as follows:
    1. RUT provides an immediate use of Quick Reload but not Burst Fire, so it might get weird if you already have ammo
    2. There needs to be some way to screw up the combo to widen the gap between skill floor and ceiling besides the wyrmstake window.
    3. Involving the small amount of thought it takes to press Burst Fire instead of Quick Reload while you have ammo increases the gameplay value where otherwise it would be a mindless 1-2-3(4) combo always.

    - For Wyrmstake/Burst Fire, if for whatever reason the outgoing damage has to merge into a single hit instead of multiple (for example, if triggering 5 hits on 30 enemies simultaneously is too intense), Wyrmstake accumulates the potency value of shots instead of number of hits.

    - Ammo adds the same potency value everywhere it is consumed. E.g. Quick Thrust + Shot is 100 potency more than QT (for example), while Burst Fire is anywhere from 100 to 500 total potency, depending on how much ammo you have at time of use. Thus, whether you spend 2 ammo on the combo and then 3 on burst fire, or if you spend 5 just on burst fire, you still get 500 potency value out of 5 Ammo; the only difference is the span of time over which you use it.

    - Wyrmstake/Wyvernfire don't interrupt the primary combo so you can still use them on cooldown even if you drift a bit

    - The Wyrmstake window would proceed something like the following, starting at full ammo:
    1. Wyrmstake
    2. Quick Thrust + shot
    3. Uppercut Thrust + shot, into Heated Reload
    4. Slam, into Heated Burst Fire
    5. Slam, into Burst Fire
    6. Running Uppercut Thrust, into Quick Reload
    7. Slam, into Burst Fire
    Thus it would need a duration of 18 seconds (including its own GCD) to fit the full combo. The effect would start somewhere in the middle of the Wyrmstake GCD.

    I would like to find a way to do 3 slam-burst fires in a row without needing to interrupt the third but I'm not sure how I can have it start with RUT without needing to add a third ammo type.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    I think that if you want to build a 'Gunlance' job, it probably should reference Nael's moveset with her gunhalberd Bradamante. You could have a Ravensbeak combo that has a Wildfire type effect, an Iron Chariot/Lunar Dynamo AoE combo, and Ravensdives as gap closers. Players have been asking for a Legatus/Judge type job for a while, and that's one way of doing it. The difficulty is in making it visually distinct.

    If I had to guess, though, I think we're sooner likely to see a hammer/maul based tank first. An Engineer type with Nero's rocket hammer is another way to do a Garlean themed tank.
    (1)

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