"I don't want to think while I play, so no one should be allowed to."

[Kazelus]

You want more but you're not using what you already have but want to say its the game not giving you enough to do with the role you chose to play. That's not a game problem that's a YOU problem, you need to go do content where you have to expend your supposed faster reflexes and analytical mind. Maybe doing Extreme, Savage and Ultimates your only reason for playing if that's what you need to feel that healing is now something you have to do more, do it in pugs I guarantee you you'll be doing nothing but healing there 98% of the time.

And yet, in FFII, WHM had Ultima, in III, it had Aero. In those games, you would eventually use more healing because, every turns you had damage to heal, but it's not the case in FFXIV, healing is largely spread in small burst heal phase and outside of it, it's insignificant...

Cant tell for Ultimates, but I garantee you that you will do damage for 90% of the time in PUG on EX and Savage. The healing required is low and spread enough so you can wait for your oGCD to come back. People doesn't need to be topped off if there is no damage coming soon... But since you suggested to cast the worst spells of the game to use in a full pack earlier(Succor), I suppose your opinions doesn't matters...

[Nizzi]

Is that really what most healers are asking for, a couple extra DPS buttons? Does that mean that Sage is perfect as a healer, since there are, um, 4 DPS buttons instead of 2?

For the sake of engaging with something that should actually be raised and out of apologies for coming across as rude (English isn't my first language so this generally isn't often my intent, but I do apologize regardless)

Yes, SGE is probably the most fun of the 4 healers in AoE situations/dungeons because of getting to use Toxicon, Phlegma, and even Pneuma on top of it instead of compared to something like Scholar which literally only has Art of War to use. I can appreciate what they were going for when it comes to SGE, but buttons you don't want to hit in ST or that you know you're losing damage on in encounters where you're supposed to be doing as much damage as possible don't feel good to players who do want to optimize in content that requires you to play as optimally as you can.

Pneuma works in AoE situations because the mobs are constantly slapping the tank, so the heal AND the damage are both always useful. In ST encounters such as raids, there isn't that level of damage hitting constantly and Pneuma is DPS neutral with Dosis, meaning you're going to use it as a heal, leading to situations where you just may never hit it at all because you also have so many oGCDs that can heal big and so does your cohealer. It's functionally the same with Toxicon - in dungeons your tank can really use that shielding and Toxicon is a DPS gain with a lot of mobs, but in ST you have so many mitigation options that do not require you to stop doing damage, so fishing for Toxicon procs outside of downtime is always a DPS loss, and when you're working towards beating the enrage timer, you want to do everything you can to not lose that DPS; it's why WHMs did not want to interact with lilies in ShB as healing tools because the "refund" was a DPS loss except when you NEEDED to move, and it's why having Misery DPS neutral is better for WHM than lilies were previously.

The most frustrating thing about SGE is how it shows the developers inability to try anything that pushes the boundaries of the healer box they have set themselves in when healers were previously not in this box. High end content in this game is pretty much entirely single target encounters unless you do Ultimate (where Dyskrasia and Art of War are gains on two, so more 1 button spam in a different flavor!) and that leaves SGE feeling the worst out of any of the healers to "DPS" on because they're willing to let it have a bit more fun in "content that doesn't matter" but are terrified of actually letting any healer have that type of fun in the content "that does matter" when it concerns job balance. This is why I'm just a big proponent of bringing Miasma and Bane back to Scholar; because having buttons that you want to use in both AoE and ST situations is GOOD, and having that interactivity within a kit is a good thing. In Stormblood, SCH used Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II in both AoE and ST situations because of the ability to spread DoTs with Bane and Miasma II being a DPS gain in the ST rotation if properly managed. Now SCH no longer has that, and it just spams Art of War over and over in AoE situations, and its boring and not fun.

We want buttons that provide something meaningful to break up our 1-1-1 spam. A second DoT to manage on a different timer, buffs/debuffs, etc, whatever. It doesn't HAVE to be DPS, but we had those DPS options in the past, they're still in the game with animations, sound effects, etc; all it would require is a little tuning on the DPS numbers to make sure we aren't doing more DPS than before and readding the buttons. If they want to radically redesign these jobs to be more engaging, I'm all for that, but whatever they do, it cannot be more of this 1 button spam.

[Rilifane]

You want more but you're not using what you already have but want to say its the game not giving you enough to do with the role you chose to play. That's not a game problem that's a YOU problem, you need to go do content where you have to expend your supposed faster reflexes and analytical mind. Maybe doing Extreme, Savage and Ultimates your only reason for playing if that's what you need to feel that healing is now something you have to do more, do it in pugs I guarantee you you'll be doing nothing but healing there 98% of the time.

You have just proven that
1) you have no idea about healers beyond a very basic "I make HP bars go up <3" level
2) you have no idea about the content you're talking about

I've healed Ex, Savage and Ultimate.
Ex and Savage on release day/ 1st week. I've done plenty of Ex and Savage in PUGs.
On my first UwU kill I had spent 269 out of 423 actions on dps.
89 actions were spent on healing, including downtime healing when we had no target to attack.
The others were things like Sprint, Lucid, potion etc.
89 actions out of 423 spent on healing. In which world is that 98% or "nothing but healing"?

And if we're talking about GCDs... I have bad news for you.
Then I spent a whooping 236 GCDs on dps.
And a measly 38 GCDs on healing... again, counting downtime healing when I had literally nothing else to do but use a shield because I had nothing to attack anyway.
In a level 70 Ultimate where I don't have Recitation, SS trait, Fey Blessing, Seraph, Protraction and Expedient.

And that was the encounter where I healed most. I spend less time healing in weekly savage reclear PUGs that don't mitigate and with a co heal I don't know.

If you could kindly point me to all the Ex, Savage and Ultimates that make me "nothing but heal 98% of the time" I'd be off.

[Nizzi]

Suggestions like "give healers more combat options." get shot down because there is no grounds for it.

Here's my grounds - 1 button spam isn't fun and this videogame should be FUN. Scholar had more DoTs in the past and its lore directly ties into the DoTs and the fairy they took away from us. If we want to go into "muh FF lore" then all you need to look at is FFXI's Scholar to see that SCH had a huge DoT focus there with helix spells and had way more offensive options too. We're using "FF lore!!" as an excuse right? Then there's no excuse for SCH being the way it is. Give me my White and Black Grimoires, give me my weather based spells and DoTs, give me stratagems, give me Modus Veritas to let me reduce the timers on my DoTs and make them do more damage, etc. Lore's lore, right? Give it back then if it matters so much.

You want more but you're not using what you already have but want to say its the game not giving you enough to do with the role you chose to play. That's not a game problem that's a YOU problem, you need to go do content where you have to expend your supposed faster reflexes and analytical mind. Maybe doing Extreme, Savage and Ultimates your only reason for playing if that's what you need to feel that healing is now something you have to do more, do it in pugs I guarantee you you'll be doing nothing but healing there 98% of the time.

Tell me you've never done Savage without telling me you've never done Savage.

[GrimGale]

Yes, because the game's lore is the core of it and its job classes, it's a MAGIC CLASS like other magic classes that use one button to do the heavy part of their damage with similar if not superior potency is why they only need 1 button. They aren't monks, they don't run combos. If anything is a symbol of their strength that they only need 1 button and have comparable power to other MAGIC JOBS. Suggestions like "give healers more combat options." get shot down because there is no grounds for it. White Mages are NOT offensive powerhouses, be thankful they are as powerful offensively as they are period.

????

If anything lore in FFXIV is testimony to healers being less powerful and offensively oriented than they should be.

[Rolder50]

average healing design defender



yes healing is surely really fun when you have absolutely no clue what youre doing and youre desperately shielding the party and then the shields wear off after 30 seconds because nobody took damage.

You don't even need to use FFLogs, you can look at the Lodestone achievements of the average healing defender on here and see that they have never touched savage. Hell, a certain Miqo'te in this thread has never even done a NORMAL raid. Which is just par for the course, really.

[Selvokaz]

What if someone fell in love with the role in HW/SB, and are disappointed at the more recent direction that has fundamentally altered how the role plays? How is the role undergoing vast changes from its original incarnationnot a game problem?


Even healing in Ultimate consists of spamming one damage button 99% of the time. The design around healing actually isn't that different from all the content elsewhere in the game, it's just fatal if you don't mitigate it properly, which is a collective responsibility for the entire party and not unique to healers. Otherwise it's still a matter of using the exact same heals at the exact same time every pull, while spamming one button the absolute vast majority of the time.

And? you hit the one dps (one of at least 2 that you have) button you have, did you or anyone else die during said content and you brought them back? Did you still clear? Did you contribute 5% or more damage to taking down the boss? if it's yes to any of these then again congratulations its working as intended.
No one here has yet said anything about why the healer jobs legit need to all of a sudden be a special case separate from every other caster.

[Catwho]

I don't play SCH in Savage (I'm SMN there), but I usually roll into Expert dungeon with it for queue times.

I prefer SCH as a healer because I literally never have to cast a GCD heal if I don't feel like it. I don't have to take my target off the tank unless a DPS stepped in the bad. It's the laziest healer and I love it so much.

Sure, Art of War one button spam is boring, but it's also satisfying in a way to NOT EVER HAVE TO STOP SLAPPING THE GROUND because the tank is good and the DPS got everything dead enough that I could finish off the final mob with a quick Ruin II.

[Theox]

And? you hit the one dps (one of at least 2 that you have) button you have, did you or anyone else die during said content and you brought them back? Did you still clear? Did you contribute 5% or more damage to taking down the boss? if it's yes to any of these then again congratulations its working as intended.
No one here has yet said anything about why the healer jobs legit need to all of a sudden be a special case separate from every other caster.

This is so embarrassing. Please just do not engage in any healer conversation. You're not contributing to the conversation. Go back to clearing the dead ends or whatever, just please stay out of healer discussion with people who are 20 steps ahead of you in their knowledge of the game and their skill level.

[Shougun]

I've gotta say, this has been one of the most pleasant conversations I've had in the forums lol.
Maybe when datacenter visit comes around we can probably do a lil bit of content together.
Maybe just chat about the state of the game in game and what not. You seem pretty chill.

I intended to respond to this but then got distracted by all the other fun fires going on lol. I agree the conversation was good, it was actually both fun and ended up feeling quite sincere.

I always enjoy talking about ideas and game concepts (hence my post count, which I'd say is easily majority 'ideas / thoughts' directly related to gameplay and mechanics).. so I wasn't anticipating disliking the conversation but I wasn't sure if we'd end up being like "NO U" lol. We did not :P.

Always welcome to talk to me when I'm in game, if I can't login to Balmung because server capacity due too much 'exceptional'RP going on then I'll know where else to try hahaha . Currently my schedule is login, garden, do 1 to 4 pvp sessions and log out lol. You best believe I'll be all up in that Island Sanctuary when it's out tho