What is wrong with cone aoe?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Exactly. Cone AoEs require two brain cells to use instead of one, that's brain cell bloat. We don't like that here.

It doesn't require any more brain cells, it just breaks the flow, which feels bad.


It's be like if some spells on black mage were long range, and some required you to be in melee range. But it didn't make sense which were which.

That would add to blm gameplay for sure!

[Lilyth]

It doesn't require any more brain cells, it just breaks the flow, which feels bad.


It's be like if some spells on black mage were long range, and some required you to be in melee range. But it didn't make sense which were which.

That would add to blm gameplay for sure!

Breaks the flow because you have to position a little? The impression I have is that if feels bad because you couldn't just sit and forget about it, or because it wasn't the exact same copy paste form other tanks. It was different, you had change things a little and that's bad.

Also RDM says hi, a caster with melee range attacks. It adds a lot of in terms of gameplay and it's fun. "Not making sense" sounds like a vague excuse one would use if they didn't like it, just saying.

[Rosenstrauch]

Honestly? Aside from needing a target to use them, nothing is wrong with cone AOEs by themselves. It only really becomes a problem when they're linked to circle AOEs, and only for DPS Jobs because the meaningful range of a circle AOE is lower the further you are from the center of a group of enemies, resulting in a playstyle of hotfooting back and forth from the edge of a pack of enemies to the center of them.

Tanks (actually just WAR) didn't really have to worry about that, because enemies should be clumping together in the space in front of you. If they're somehow attacking you from behind, you've screwed up. But in that case, I'd say Tanks have the opposite problem: Circle AOEs are outright worse than Cone AOEs in all ways except "needing a target to us them". Which could easily be solved by removing the need for a target.

Also, if we wanted to introduce even a smidgen of variety in how Tanks play, they could make each Tank's AOE skills act differently. WAR's could be cones, DRK's could be lines (like Dragoon's or Flood of Shadow), PLD's could be full circles, and GNB's could be half circles. Their animations would have to be adjusted to match the new hitboxes and their ranges would have to be rebalanced, but I think it'd be a neat change.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Breaks the flow because you have to position a little? The impression I have is that if feels bad because you couldn't just sit and forget about it, or because it wasn't the exact same copy paste form other tanks. It was different, you had change things a little and that's bad.

Also RDM says hi, a caster with melee range attacks. It adds a lot of in terms of gameplay and it's fun. "Not making sense" sounds like a vague excuse one would use if they didn't like it, just saying.

And rdm has a gap close and a gap opener for that express purpose.

And yes, it does break the flow.

It's not difficult, doesn't add complexity. There's no engagement from cone to circle and back. It's just annoyance.


I would have preferred all cones over all circles.

And I'm not hiding the fact I don't like it. Just saying.

[Irenia]

I mean, it's just positioning.

Which is like 50% of this game's gameplay at high level.

At the end of the day I don't know what the big problem with cones is.

[Shougun]

I mean, it's just positioning.

Which is like 50% of this game's gameplay at high level.

At the end of the day I don't know what the big problem with cones is.

I can understand if there was no option for another playstyle but I think removing them given that there /are/ other options out there is unfortunate for those who like it. It's something that you'll never fully win on, or please everyone, but personally I feel like these things could help be the stuff that creates differences between jobs. Not all jobs having a fel cleave window, not all jobs having a similar rotation of / or same type of AoEs, etc. Of course if it doesn't create massive imbalance.

Though it is why I suggested a medium, and also opportunity to improve AoEs in general in the previous post here- if for example Warrior had a sweet spot (additional damage, or whatever) that was the cone but still had a circle portion as well then for skilled play you'd be mindful but if you were trying to just get by / got unlucky cause the mob moved you'd also still get the enmity you were looking for. Or the alternative suggestion in that post which was at distance it's a huge conal but up close it changes to a radius (smart spell that determines functionality by conditional situations).

Obviously overpower is not the only thing that makes a warrior a warrior lol... and I can understand the QoL (personally would prefer if I was up close that it would be a circle cause then I can be lazy ) but each time you smooth out the corners, particularly completely (rather than say conditional casting or say sweet spots), they'll slowly become more of the same. Making different choices more of a choice of color than a choice of playstyle.

Like I suggested for Scholar they might have a new smaller concentric circle that deals more damage to that space as just such a simple change could create a little bit more thought on how you cast Art of War (now you would pick the monster that needs to die the fastest and ground slam there, rather than enter wherever and cast wherever- a minor change but would have constant mental feedback to what you were doing, though I did have more written about it like creating chain reactions with other spells but.. that's for another thread lol).

Like in a related concept maybe not everyone likes positional, and I think it's fine that there are jobs that might apply for the positional concept (like melee) but instead of positional are able to either frequently ignore or just have another gimmick to worry about instead. Yet if you completely made all positional meaningless (for all jobs), I feel that'd be quite unfortunate for those who like it as a gameplay mechanism.

[pikalovr]

it's almost as if you had trouble taking aggro you could just use your circle AOe first weird that huh? it's almost as if that's what people suggested if you still had trouble aiming the cone and once you got good with the cone it was almost never an issue. "oh but mobs not lining up right or going behind you". excuse me? since when did mobs have the braincells to get behind you? never once in my entire time tanking have i had mobs behind me or not lined up properly for cone AOEs. even when i occasionally played a DPS with a cone AOE like SAM i would almost guaranteed hit every mob the tank pulled. oh no one mob didn't get hit oh god, oh shi, oh duck. it's not like once there's only like one mob you can burst it down in 1/2 GCDs from all your parties single target GCDs cause surprise! you have 3 other people also AOEing that are hitting that mob. plus if the tank can run after the pull he'll just ranged attack once the pack thins to one or two mobs anyways and allow the DPS to finish it off while they run. it sounds more likely to me people don't know how to position which wouldn't surprise me tbh. i doubt they even know about mini kiting to delay auto attack damage (which is fairly useful in low level content while you're leveling just fyi can make or break a full pull in some areas).

it's subtle things like that that make tanking fun knowing how best to line up mobs for cone, or line AOEs or knowing how to mini kite to delay damage while not annoying your melee DPS etc... you don't like it? PLAY ANOTHER JOB FFS WE HAVE 4 TANKS ALL WITH DIFFERENT AOES FOR A REASON. STOP FORCING EVERYTHING TO BE HOMOGENIZED CAUSE YOU HAVE TO MOVE 2 DUCKING INCHES. WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TANKING TO BE JUST SIT THERE AND DO NOTHING? YOU HAVE TO AVOID AOES ANYWAYS GUYS. GUESS WE SHOULD JUST GET RID OF THAT AS WELL SO I DON'T HAVE TO MOVE PERIOD AFTER PULLING ALL THE MOBS.

[Bookie]

because instead of trying to improve average players skill level, the dev decided to keep catering to braindead styles.

fighting mobs? no u dun need to move. just stand still and press buttons.

[Illmaeran]

I'm a big fan of the change from cone to circle on Overpower, it makes gathering packs a lot easier. I feel that DPS classes find use in cone AoEs and should have both circular and cone attacks for different situations.

[Simple_Barghest]

I'm a big fan of the change from cone to circle on Overpower, it makes gathering packs a lot easier. I feel that DPS classes find use in cone AoEs and should have both circular and cone attacks for different situations.

How dare you add nuance and murky grey areas to a clearly black-and-white subject.