Frontlines is an Unbearable Experience Now

[YukikoKurosawa]

Between summoner premades nuking entire teams

to Paladin's cover stealing nodes in Onsal

To nodes near consistently spawning everywhere that benefits the enemy team but not my team lately (since they don't spawn based on which team is winning or losing so the winning team can keep getting node spawns in their area exclusively pretty much guaranteeing their victory)

To being grouped with people who ignore call outs and objectives, can't kill or take nodes, and being grouped against constant meta abusers but somehow rarely grouped with teammates who are wise enough to abuse the meta themselves (I'll often be one of the only few summoners on my own team against teams with over half their teams summoners)

To countless games where it is obvious 2 teams are coordinating against 1 team (who is already in last place as second place NEVER focuses 1st but ALWAYS last)

It's absolutely unbearable for the solo que experience. There is nothing resembling enjoyment left save for the few rare close games. Rare, because most games nowadays just 1 team getting rolled while one throws a match for another. There is almost never anything resembling proper sportsmanship. Just abuse of broken jobs and mechanics, 2 teams ganging up on the 1 losing team rather than a proper 1v1v1 as was intended.

And what's worse is this is the only active PvP mode left save for the new, and now slowly dying, Crystaline Conflict. You took away Rival Wings rather than fix it and put it on the roulette. The one and only reason Frontlines still exists is because of the daily roulette rewards. Take that away and it dies and takes PvP as a whole with it. This isn't an enjoyable mode, and it never was. Largely because of the players themselves who refuse to play as was intended. But the game mode, along with certain jobs, being outright broken only leads to player abuse as we currently see.

It's an absolute clownshow. Is this what you want the player experience of PvP to be? Why does it even exist at this point? If you're going to leave it in this godawful state just remove it like you removed Rival Wings, let Crystaline Conflict die the death it also deserves, and do what I suggested in the past and completely give up on PvP since you refuse to actually give a damn about it and take it even vaguely seriously.

[Marxam]

those are mostly oversights with simple fixes i.e. pld cover. SMN has always been strong in in frontlines even going back to when they had dots like bio 1/2, miasma and shadowflare. They excel in choke points which a lot of maps have like the middle node of hakir. I think visibility of which are friendly and which aren't would be nice. Like if the bahamuts were colored by their respective GC i.e. mael = red, flames = black, adders = yellow. Atm I can't tell which is firendly and which isn't and I walk into one that I thought is friendly but turns out it it isn't.

I've seen alliances get shut out of the middle in cartenau when the nodes spawn by three bahamuts and a few slipstreams as they come up the ramp for easy kills. With a full party of 8 SMN with LB's you can easily block both alliances by playing the LB's on the rams going up the mid and any survivors are just picked off.

I think fundamentally the 3 alliance design is creating animosity because most, if not all, matches are basically picking on one alliance be it either adder or flames. I honestly dread whenever I get put into those GC's for a queue. Doesn't mean I won't try but its one of those situations where its frustrating enough to lose that I usually turn off the game for the day and not bother with it. Just no fun to get ganked and they need to stop with the three or maybe introduce a fourth like Ishgard GC. Stick to only two teams and keep it simple.

[Gserpent]

those are mostly oversights with simple fixes i.e. pld cover. SMN has always been strong in in frontlines even going back to when they had dots like bio 1/2, miasma and shadowflare. They excel in choke points which a lot of maps have like the middle node of hakir. I think visibility of which are friendly and which aren't would be nice. Like if the bahamuts were colored by their respective GC i.e. mael = red, flames = black, adders = yellow. Atm I can't tell which is firendly and which isn't and I walk into one that I thought is friendly but turns out it it isn't.

I've seen alliances get shut out of the middle in cartenau when the nodes spawn by three bahamuts and a few slipstreams as they come up the ramp for easy kills. With a full party of 8 SMN with LB's you can easily block both alliances by playing the LB's on the rams going up the mid and any survivors are just picked off.


As has been said in other threads, JP players do not have issues dealing with SMN and, in fact, tend to regard the class as somewhat weak (BLM is apparently much more of an issue for them, and I would tend to agree.) JP players are also well known to be *far* better than EU and NA players at FL, so it's probably not a coincidence that strong players don't really find SMN bothersome while weak ones do.

I do think that 1v1v1 is a stupid format, but there's no way they're going to change it. Not for FL.

I think fundamentally the 3 alliance design is creating animosity because most, if not all, matches are basically picking on one alliance be it either adder or flames. I honestly dread whenever I get put into those GC's for a queue. Doesn't mean I won't try but its one of those situations where its frustrating enough to lose that I usually turn off the game for the day and not bother with it. Just no fun to get ganked and they need to stop with the three or maybe introduce a fourth like Ishgard GC. Stick to only two teams and keep it simple.

Forced freelancer means GC is meaningless. Your pro Maelstrom players are equally likely to be Flames or Adders now, so I'm really not sure where you're going with that comment. If you had an enemy team that was trying to dominate choke points with Bahamut spamming... you just go around it. For Secure, this means you'd ignore mid and instead just take all the bases while their team is divided over mid - or you'd get there early, force out the bahamuts on the bridges and ramps where they won't contribute towards actual mid fighting, and then just butcher them in mid when they no longer have LB available. For OH, it means you generally just don't bother with mid anymore, especially not if you didn't get there first and take control of the platform - but this is exactly how things worked before, so it's not really a change. Mid was always a waste of time in OH and a complete noob trap. Neither Shatter nor Seal Rock have singular choke points that allow SMN spam to dominate, though there might be specific routes to specific nodes that can be problematic - the solution there is to just avoid them if you think you'll get a bunch of laser turkeys dropped on top of you.



As has been said in other threads, JP players do not have issues dealing with SMN and, in fact, tend to regard the class as somewhat weak (BLM is apparently much more of an issue for them, and I would tend to agree.) JP players are also well known to be *far* better than EU and NA players at FL, so it's probably not a coincidence that strong players don't really find SMN bothersome while weak ones do.

I do think that 1v1v1 is a stupid format, but there's no way they're going to change it. Not for FL.

[Asuka-Hykiri]

As has been said in other threads, JP players do not have issues dealing with SMN and, in fact, tend to regard the class as somewhat weak (BLM is apparently much more of an issue for them, and I would tend to agree.) JP players are also well known to be *far* better than EU and NA players at FL, so it's probably not a coincidence that strong players don't really find SMN bothersome while weak ones do.

I do think that 1v1v1 is a stupid format, but there's no way they're going to change it. Not for FL.

I wonder if its because unlike JP players, our FL is full of people just being happy to lose at content and get a runner-up medal (And bitch at anyone trying to take it seriously)

Do wish we'd have active GMs looking at people throwing matches/refusing to participate though.

[Gserpent]

I wonder if its because unlike JP players, our FL is full of people just being happy to lose at content and get a runner-up medal (And bitch at anyone trying to take it seriously)

Do wish we'd have active GMs looking at people throwing matches/refusing to participate though.

It's a nice idea, but how do you *prove* someone is goldbricking unless they're stupid enough to say they are in chat or some other place where GMs can see it?

[Gserpent]

<pointless whining>

Hey, cool. If you hate it so much, stop playing it. And while you're at it, stop whining about it, too.

There's already a bunch of threads full of people whining about FL because they are unable or unwilling to bother trying to learn how to deal with the current meta. Summoner is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Paladin is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Nothing in FL is truly "broken" right now, though things are not ideal. We can expect some adjustments in 6.18, and probably more in 6.2x patches as well.

Until that point, your options are to either learn to deal with the current meta and play around it, or just write FL off as something you won't enjoy until changes are made to it. In either case, whining and complaining about it is not productive or constructive, nor is creating new threads for this whining and complaining when multiple other threads are already filling this purpose.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Hey, cool. If you hate it so much, stop playing it. And while you're at it, stop whining about it, too.

There's already a bunch of threads full of people whining about FL because they are unable or unwilling to bother trying to learn how to deal with the current meta. Summoner is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Paladin is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Nothing in FL is truly "broken" right now, though things are not ideal. We can expect some adjustments in 6.18, and probably more in 6.2x patches as well.

Until that point, your options are to either learn to deal with the current meta and play around it, or just write FL off as something you won't enjoy until changes are made to it. In either case, whining and complaining about it is not productive or constructive, nor is creating new threads for this whining and complaining when multiple other threads are already filling this purpose.

"Bro it's all fine ur just whining no i wont elaborate"

Not an argument.

[Divinemights]

"Bro it's all fine ur just whining no i wont elaborate"
Not an argument.

I just game out a Frontline with you in there and I don't want to shame you of what just happened on a public forum.
All I am going to say is you have a lot to learn, and your ability to make any creditable criticism is highly in doubt.
Don't start to argue with veterans here, just do more research and learn first

[Mobitron]

Hey, cool. If you hate it so much, stop playing it. And while you're at it, stop whining about it, too.

There's already a bunch of threads full of people whining about FL because they are unable or unwilling to bother trying to learn how to deal with the current meta. Summoner is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Paladin is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Nothing in FL is truly "broken" right now, though things are not ideal. We can expect some adjustments in 6.18, and probably more in 6.2x patches as well.

Until that point, your options are to either learn to deal with the current meta and play around it, or just write FL off as something you won't enjoy until changes are made to it. In either case, whining and complaining about it is not productive or constructive, nor is creating new threads for this whining and complaining when multiple other threads are already filling this purpose.

Your quote is just as useless and unconstructive as you claim the post you're responding to is. Completely pointless. "Just deal with it bro" is neither constructive nor a valid response and it certainly is not an argument. It's just pompous stupidity. What do you even have to be arrogant about? Stop that.

[Kuroka]

Yes since the changes i havend done much FL anymore... its just no fun... and we need to swtich to 2 teams per match, if its 1:1:1 the last team will just give up to loose faster and hope is lost - sure, sometimes theres a comeback but overall... you just cant balance that.

Any of the maps would work with 2 groups as well, take the CC groups and be done.