6.2 Hrothgar Update

**Zanarkand-Ronso** · 06-24-2022 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by reivaxe

The options are unique Hrothgar hair that's VERY rare (coming in between large spans of time) and VERY few in number

If they had started since Shadowbringers and gave us a couple in between long wait periods like every 2-3 patches, which means maybe up to 5 new hairs since release, with plans to do more into Endwalker and beyond.
Id be 100% ok with this. Because then we Hrothgar Players (I have an Alt, as a reminder) would have these hopefully Cool Unique hairstyles, and they wouldn't have these dumb issues. They would be made specifically for the Hrothgar for their unique heads.

You can say Using old hair is less work and might come out faster...but at the cost of...yknow, the nonsense we are dealing with now.
Id rather wait longer for something to be done RIGHT, then a short period and get crap.

**SturmChurro** · 06-24-2022 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If they had started since Shadowbringers and gave us a couple in between long wait periods like every 2-3 patches, which means maybe up to 5 new hairs since release, with plans to do more into Endwalker and beyond.
Id be 100% ok with this. Because then we Hrothgar Players (I have an Alt, as a reminder) would have these hopefully Cool Unique hairstyles, and they wouldn't have these dumb issues. They would be made specifically for the Hrothgar for their unique heads.

You can say Using old hair is less work and might come out faster...but at the cost of...yknow, the nonsense we are dealing with now.
Id rather wait longer for something to be done RIGHT, then a short period and get crap.

Yeah, but do you play your alt much? I have an alt too, and I haven't done ANYTHING on it in the past 2 or maybe 3 years except log on to fantasia or do events.

I find it questionable if waiting longer will actually yield anything good. As hrothgar already waited three years, and got those hairs.. A lot of the viera hairs don't even look that good for the long wait, with those gigantic foreheads..

Originally Posted by reivaxe

How niche they are is completely dependent on how they're designed. Make them look like the dudes-but-with-boobs that the woke people on twitter (who REALLY want to challenge gender norms to feel special) keep pushing, even though we know the arvg person wants no part of that? Yup, a bunch of time and effort to please like 3 people and make something less popular than Femroe.
Make them look like some amount more-furry, taller Mithra as seen in the queen's artbook art and murals? Easily more popular than the dudes, at least, and could make a decent fanbase.

Regardless of how many people whine about Au Ra, the females are hella popular and show that a few people online crying don't speak for the majority.

Anyway, it's not a matter of talking about it at this point. They're coming regardless of what effects they have on the reg dev time, so the time to warn against that is looong gone.

Even if they made them not look like hulking monstrosities, they'd still be pretty niche, let's be honest. I seriously doubt that race counterpart will be worth the consequences towards customization options, gear, etc. for everyone else. Male hrothgar will probably end up being the ones who suffer the most for female hrothgar inclusion, for that matter. Again, I don't think they should have released male viera either, yet. The only way it would be worthwhile is them miraculously making it easier to fit gear, add customization options, hair, etc.. by then.

I don't think au ra are comparable to female hrothgar either. Unless you think they are going to literally just do miqo'te 2.0 where femhroth are more human than bestial.

**Azuri** · 06-24-2022 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If they had started since Shadowbringers and gave us a couple in between long wait periods like every 2-3 patches, which means maybe up to 5 new hairs since release, with plans to do more into Endwalker and beyond.
Id be 100% ok with this. Because then we Hrothgar Players (I have an Alt, as a reminder) would have these hopefully Cool Unique hairstyles, and they wouldn't have these dumb issues. They would be made specifically for the Hrothgar for their unique heads.

You can say Using old hair is less work and might come out faster...but at the cost of...yknow, the nonsense we are dealing with now.
Id rather wait longer for something to be done RIGHT, then a short period and get crap.

I got curious and checked how many hairstyles for normal races have we gotten since Shadowbringers. The answer is eleven. 11. Four of them are just NPC hairstyles, btw. I'm sorry but expecting five Hroth specific hairstyles in the same time period is kinda rich and your reaction only reinforces the point reivaxe is making. You'd really be looking at 1-2 unique hairstyles per expansion.

**reivaxe** · 06-24-2022 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If they had started since Shadowbringers and gave us a couple in between long wait periods like every 2-3 patches, which means maybe up to 5 new hairs since release, with plans to do more into Endwalker and beyond.
Id be 100% ok with this. Because then we Hrothgar Players (I have an Alt, as a reminder) would have these hopefully Cool Unique hairstyles, and they wouldn't have these dumb issues. They would be made specifically for the Hrothgar for their unique heads.

You can say Using old hair is less work and might come out faster...but at the cost of...yknow, the nonsense we are dealing with now.
Id rather wait longer for something to be done RIGHT, then a short period and get crap.

What coulda been means nothing, and "Long patches" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there given we have no reason to think that they would do anything more than 1 an expac, if that. Fact of the matter is that the Graphics team came to YP with their proposal on what they can do/ how they could find the resources to make Male Viera and Female Hrothgar just 6mts after the release of ShB.
So from that moment on, everything was up in the air and subject to change. To me, it's clear that "spend resources making Viera only hair and more Hrothgar $10 heads/ manes, FOREVER" was one of the things chopped off because of that and in no small part because of the constant request for shared hair and not having to pay $10 to change your hair change.

Every hairstyle that the Male Viera were released with was time and money and resources that coulda went towards making unique female Viera hair ... I find it acceptable, personally. Every race would want more unique new hair, ultimately, but quantity is more important and no one wants to be left out of new content rewards. No problem with people feeling the other way, but I do warn against pie-in-the-sky outlooks. "Would I be willing to wait an entire expac to get just ONE hairstyle?" is the way I think it should be addressed, seeing as they were willing to make Viera/ Hrothgar wait over an entire expac to get ANY new hair options.

As someone whose wanted to play female Hrothgar since the reveal of Hrothgar, and is 100% gonna play them provided SE gives them an appealing design, I'd 100% prefer shared hair and I can only hope that they were designed with shared hair in mind.

**Midareyukki** · 06-23-2022 12:28 PM

I just want to direct people to the Hrothgar Feedback thread I keep mentioning.

I know I'm being a nag with it, and idk the extent people agree with it. But I made it by consolidating what was said by many people. So I do want to make some things clear:

Hrothgar players aren't blaming the development team inherently. We just want someone to own up to what happened. The situation isn't sustainable, it's currently harming the development of the game and the enjoyment people have with this race. Either someone in the team isn't being honest and just doesn't want to do something too complicated. Or the development team's leaders have given up or feel like the race has become too much. Or they don't have any funding, time or resources, in which case the fault lies on the people above. There are so many factors and so many people involved that the fault is fuzzy and you can't target specific people. Nor do we want to, given how dangerous JP's work culture is.
It's not about the blame. It's about how this isn't working out and that someone needs to do something about it. We're not the ones making the game, they are. And if they aren't the ones to blame, then they need to organize themselves. "This isn't working for these players, we need to do something. If not content, then at least a proper answer."
We know it takes time to make any piece of content. Or at least, I personally do from my own experience. I can at least hazard a guess. But just because it's hard and time-consuming, it doesn't mean it's impossible. This is a team known for allocating its time as well as they can. We just want time allocated for us.
We know this race isn't well done. Call it unfinished or faulty, the point is that the way it's done is harming how future stuff will be made for it. We're just asking for them to address it.
We are aware what their paradigm was. But that doesn't mean it has to be. What was decided before can change, and has changed.
We aren't mad at them for not giving us racial-exclusive stuff. Some people will always be mad, some people will always be happy. What we aren't okay with is how shoddy and how many corners keep being cut to address us. Even if other races had cut corners, Hrothgar is having too many.
The outrage comes from years of feeling mistreated, and then seeing the level of quality presented. It wasn't good. To some people it may have been the lack of racial exclusivity, but the common factor to every complaint was the quality.
Yoshida's surprise is understandable... on that it shows disconnect.

We understand our race is the most complex of all. But we love it. Yet it's hard to continue doing so when it feels the development team doesn't want us to like what they do.

I know not many people are willing to be patient. I personally am, I just want quality assurance and respect. That is all.

Please read the 5th post of the Feedback Thread.

**XiRon** · 06-23-2022 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

They need to work on content that is sustainable/replayable first before worrying about ears.

no no theres plenty to do in the game. 5 minutes to press a button to keep preexisting ears on hrothgars heads to just clip thru new hairs will not delay any new content do you people seriously believe the people designing new character customization options are also in charge of battle mapping and dungeon design?
Why is it every time a hrothgar asks "you guys remember we exist yet" some non-hrothgar players lose their minds and think the game will get delayed on new content? They design new shit every patch for 6 races, 7 since we KNOW viera will get every new hair option, it will not kill them to make that same thing work on hrothgar.
Hrothgar got nothing, not a damn thing for the entire duration of shb and shb did not suffer a derth of content, do not act like the loss of ultimate was hrothgars fault when literally nothing good happened for hrothgar the whole expansion they were introduced in.

**XiRon** · 06-23-2022 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Ehhh, I'm detecting a little bias there. You really think they won't be hunched over femroes? Do you really? :^)

Ok but no really, considering how Hrothgar are made at the moment, I do think they will be femroes. Like, who knows, they'll break the mold. Don't let that be an indication of much.

Also, stuff being unappealing is to be expected.

Girl you know hrothgals aint gonna hunch that would require any female in this game to have a different body type in this game lmao.

We can assume two things about hrothgals.
1) They will be same size as hrothmen bc the Bozjan murals depict fh being only slightly shorter than the writer copout femroe, and mh are only slightly shorter than femroe
2) They will not hunch because "we heard your complaints so fh will actually look good while mh are stuck with a hunch for no reason please understand removing the hunch from a jerryrigged roe spine is so hard :,(". Also they want to appeal to straight boys, ie, female miqote players, and so fh will have to be uguu kawaii and just barely bestial in any capacity.

On the subject of hunching they need to remove the hunch. It has 0 reasom to exist, hrothgar dont have animal feet so why woukd they have issues standing properly?

**Midareyukki** · 06-23-2022 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by XiRon

On the subject of hunching they need to remove the hunch. It has 0 reasom to exist, hrothgar dont have animal feet so why woukd they have issues standing properly?

Carrying the whole weight of the Bozja content on their backs, obviously.

**Raim** · 06-23-2022 11:46 PM

Don't remove the hunch. Just do what I keep saying and make it a simple toggle option in the Aesthetician for those who wish to keep it. It can't be 'that' hard to implement. And don't give me this crap about how they would take forever to redo the model animations. We already have standing Hrothgar emotes. We have standing Hrothgar in cutscenes and walking in cutscenes at times. They definitely have the animations for if they wanted to make them fully upright. The only problem might be combat animations, but they can keep the beastlike posture for that if they insist. Secondly, they need to have staff sit down and actually explain the entire process of adding in things like new hairstyles and why it takes so much longer or is so much more difficult for them than 'other people' making them. Have Yoshida write up the process of it so we at least know why they are struggling to do something that at first seems like it would be easy for a programmer.

**Kazhar** · 06-23-2022 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Raim

Don't remove the hunch. Just do what I keep saying and make it a simple toggle option in the Aesthetician for those who wish to keep it. It can't be 'that' hard to implement. And don't give me this crap about how they would take forever to redo the model animations. We already have standing Hrothgar emotes. We have standing Hrothgar in cutscenes and walking in cutscenes at times. They definitely have the animations for if they wanted to make them fully upright. The only problem might be combat animations, but they can keep the beastlike posture for that if they insist.

They probably won't do this. The amount of character creation options seems to be limited to a fixed number. Probably to prevent the character packets from getting too large. And AFAIK they never increased the size, not even for the new races.

So they will probably say that if we want a hunch toggle, they'd have to remove another option. Or add that option for everyone.

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