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  1. #81
    Player
    KickRox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    42
    Character
    Kick Rox
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar View Post
    It's barely useful. Doesn't do outright damage like ALL other melee DPS, only slightly buffs your damage of your normal moves, and you're just as vulnerable as always (Have fun trying not to get nuked down before you can make use of it). Communio also has a potency of 16,000, which is the LEAST of ALL other melee DPS, and once you toss it, you're back to square one normal. Then the Hysteria just making it harder to even land your hits cause your chasing them. Which even better if they are ranged DPS and you just gave them free distance if they were close enough in the first place.
    f'real brew.. I barely use RPR LB > Bind outside crystal as a guaranteed win in overtime if we're in the lead. Oh and on Cloud 9, I barely wait until enemy team pops guard for turbulence, then I barely LB their guard off 3 seconds before so they all are again, guaranteed to lose 50% HP.

    Oh, and on Volcano I barely wait for right before eruptions to LB enemies into 30k HP aoe.

    That's all before I barely utilize the massive damage potential of the combo with Death warrant.

    I mean, RPR LB "useful?" barely.
    (4)
    You Tube Kick Rox for the best PvP videos!

  2. #82
    Player
    Vermillionwing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Ouka Tenko
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KickRox View Post
    You use Earth's Reply
    You are healed for 32000 damage.
    Enemy 1,2,3 & 4 take 16000 damage
    You use Phoenix > Phantom
    Enemy 1,2,3 & 4 take 15000 damage
    (3-4 seconds of input/animation)

    You just basically Sky Shattered enemies 1-4

    But what about #5, the BLM at full HP that wasn't in melee range?

    You use Phoenix > enlightenment > Meteordrive (2 seconds of input, 2 more in animation lock)
    BLM takes 51000 damage.

    Shyeaa bro, mnk is sewww trash.

    Go ahead. I'll wait while you check the pvp guide and realize you haven't been utilizing MNKs most valuable tool in the kit all this time.

    It's okay to be a beginner. We were all there once. But youre better off just asking people how to get better than posting in an attempt to not look like a beginner.


    You're talking about damage/healing in basically a vacuum, how do you have LB and PR ready to go? It also doesn't account for them being able to pop their own defensives or healing, because you can usually just recuperate spam through most of what monk can throw out from a neutral state, unless you have amp'd PR, LB or the enemy has run out of TP. And that's not considering being chain cc locked into the dirt as well so good luck on getting Phantom Rush up consistently.

    It also doesn't really hold up anymore with all the potency increases that have been happening and if you're being focused on by multiple enemies at once. Your shielding/healing is basically piddly when 2 people decide to gang up on you and basically non existent at 3 or more. Eyeballing it monk feels like they die about 1.5x-2x faster than on release CC under near identitical conditions.

    I mean ideally you have Amp'd PR opener which is 30-40%, your OGCD combo which is 30-40% then your LB which is another 40% or so, but that not always available if at all. Enemy team not gonna wait around convinently for you to get your PR and LB ready, and the teamfight probably isn't lasting long enough for that to happen either.

    Numbers and everything apply in theory, when everyone and everything knows what they're doing and does it correctly, but it doesn't account for things like a team not being able to win a 4v1 engagement under the objective while you're busy holding off the other 4 members of their team near spawn (one of the reasons why i'm stuck/gave up in gold), or the entire enemy team deciding you're a monk and a easy kill(post potency buffs) so they engage on you/burst you down instead of the tank, or your ranged dps/healers running away like headless chickens the moment they get touched instead of helping you burst down a target that gets away cause you've been cc' locked.


    Also for anyone wondering wondering why i'm a puglist level 70, i server d/ced while in Eureka.
    (1)
    Last edited by Vermillionwing; 07-05-2022 at 09:15 AM.

  3. #83
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    There are a lot of jobs that can pop off under optimal circumstances, but the problem lies in the fact that things like CC spam or even just aggressive focus-firing can very easily throw a wrench in your gameplan.

    RPR is another example of a job with an extremely high burst damage ceiling but it can almost never make practical use of it due to how many conditions need to align without it being interrupted.

    It's precisely why NIN is so good compared to the other melee because they can dump 30K+ damage in the span of two GCDs with basically no set-up involved then delete you with their LB afterward...which is made worse by the ones that are cheating with auto-LB scripts as you have literally no time to use Recuperate after getting pushed into the instakill threshold.
    (5)
    Last edited by KageTokage; 07-05-2022 at 11:08 AM.

  4. #84
    Player Gserpent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    800
    Character
    Grinning Serpent
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermillionwing View Post
    Survivability: Monk HAD great survival tools. Shield/healing potency has not increased/scaled with damage potency, and there are no % modifers in monk kit. Potency buffs on other classes render monk kit more and more ineffective, what takes 3 hits to crack through now takes 1 or 2 which is a huge % drop in effectiveness.

    You can no longer soak 4 people beating on you without blinking, infact several times you can't even take 2 or 3 people beating on you at the same time, sometimes you can't even win a direct and isolated 1v1 (sounds like ARR, HW, and SB pvp monk no?)
    MNK should win 1v1 against almost any class, except perhaps NIN (who can just kite them for days.) Like, it shouldn't even be close. RPR might be the closest? Point about increasing potencies is valid and is a huge reason why I'm pretty annoyed that SE's stance on things seems to be JUST MAKE IT DO MORE DAMAGE LOL instead of addressing core issues classes might have. 6k is typically two GCDs, and that hasn't changed - SE is generally just bumping the potency on cooldowns, rather than fillers. And the more damage people do, the more healing (and damage) Riddle of Earth does.

    It's fine, for now. Hopefully SE just gives an overall HP bump at some point, though.

    Suggested Adjustments:
    Increase Monk damage,retain current survivability: Frontload more potency into earlier moves, and ogcds or reduce the length of the combo string. In a burst heavy environment, monk needs early access damage.

    OR

    Return Monk survivability(preferred): Upscale monk shielding and healing to match with all the damage potency buffs. If you want to keep monk identity as sustained dps, it needs a way to be able to apply that dps in PVP's high burst and high cc environment. Possibly increase their cc/anti cc kit.
    MNK damage and survivability is fine for now. I would like to see them change Riddle of Earth to always pop instead of needing a second action to activate (since similar effects like Macrocosmos *do* automatically pop, so it clearly can't be a balance thing.) That would function as a small buff to them.

    As for not seeing MNK in crystal? Maybe your DC is different? MNK is very common on Crystal, though probably behind NIN. People on this DC seem to recognize how strong MNK is.
    (2)

  5. #85
    Player
    KickRox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    42
    Character
    Kick Rox
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gserpent View Post
    I would like to see them change Riddle of Earth to always pop instead of needing a second action to activate (since similar effects like Macrocosmos *do* automatically pop, so it clearly can't be a balance thing.) That would function as a small buff to them.

    As for not seeing MNK in crystal? Maybe your DC is different? MNK is very common on Crystal, though probably behind NIN. People on this DC seem to recognize how strong MNK is.
    This is the only adjustment I think is warranted. I don't think nearly enough people at lower tiers understand just how powerful/valuable having the ability to take just about any enemy out of play every 60 seconds is at higher tiers. MNK doesn't have the front end burst that other melees do for that specific reason, if it did, why would anyone use DRG/SAM etc?
    (4)
    You Tube Kick Rox for the best PvP videos!

  6. #86
    Player
    Bureda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    243
    Character
    Bureda Ghodhand
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gserpent View Post
    DRG is generally seen as the weakest melee.

    SAM is similarly not a popular pick.

    At high skill, MNK, NIN, and RPR are the most common picks.
    You're spewing a lot of garbage but very confidently.

    MNK is the best melee job we have so far. It should win most 1vs1 matches outside of Paladin and fully stacked Reaper.
    MNK doesn't just have high sustain, they have one of the highest bursts. Having 90% of your HP taken isn't sustain.

    NIN have absolutely no melee presence even if they are 'melee'.
    You also mentioned NIN being a hyped up Paladin. Paladins can deal high damage whilst essentially casting cure 2 on themselves every 1.44 seconds. When it comes to 1vs1 literally no job can touch a Paladin. If a NIN opts to go defensive and use both defensive mudras they are essentially non-existent.

    DRG still have one of the highest range damage capabilities, even beating NIN and outside of MNK they are second best at dealing with current META and future META which is basically going to be BLM, SMN and MCH. Your sustain revolves around you being gung-ho. Which is the most effective method of dealing with ranged.

    RPR is still hit and miss, in a controlled dueling environment they can even beat a PLD if the stars truly align. The problem with the job right now is waiting for all those stars to align is just a big gamble and the pay-off isn't worth the rush, when you could really be doing that with a MNK at a much more consistent pace.

    SAM is in a very good spot, they can make a huge difference. Don't need to be flavour of the month. They do everything above average. Obviously, they need more love with the whole casting issue. BLM have less cast than a SAM. Now that's a slap to the face. Smile.

    You're also ignoring the fact that ALL melees can be kited and cc'd twelve ways to Sunday. The meta is being shifted by Square towards Physical Ranged and Casters and if any pvper worth their salty sweat, knows ranged meta is terrible.

    The only thing Melee have going for them is we have LBs that can clear objectives slightly better than what ranged can do, but, if they keep buffing SMN and MCH melee will just be relegated.
    (3)

  7. #87
    Player
    Bloodthrone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    84
    Character
    Azrael Bloodthrone
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Look at it as a tank

    Here's the problem with your logic if we wanted to play a TANK we would play a TANK RPR is a DPS and should act accordingly. I'll give you this much is good at cluching and decent at controlling the flow of the battlefield. Now given that you've never played RPR and you a speaking completely out of your ass I highly recommend you walk a mile in our shoes before you start talking down to us.

    P.S: We also have literally the slowest bust timing in pvp compared to the other dps especially when we are consistently CCed into the ground and above all else on LB.
    (2)

  8. #88
    Player
    Bloodthrone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    84
    Character
    Azrael Bloodthrone
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodthrone View Post
    Look at it as a tank

    Here's the problem with your logic if we wanted to play a TANK we would play a TANK RPR is a DPS and should act accordingly. I'll give you this much is good at cluching and decent at controlling the flow of the battlefield. Now given that you've never played RPR and you a speaking completely out of your ass I highly recommend you walk a mile in our shoes before you start talking down to us.

    P.S: We also have literally the slowest bust timing in pvp compared to the other dps especially when we are consistently CCed into the ground and above all else on LB.
    I'm talking to you Gserpent!!!!
    (0)

  9. #89
    Player
    Vermillionwing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    7
    Character
    Ouka Tenko
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 90
    I agree that monk will win against pretty much any other class in 1v1, however they will win EVENTUALLY and in a VACUUM. Being the operative words, CC is a team game, not a duel. The higher up you go the more situationally aware everyone is. The window to isolate for that 1v1 is fairly narrow and it becomes a 2v1, 3v1, 4v1 within seconds. It takes time to ramp up to that sweet burst in the form of PR and LB, which you don't always have and sometimes you can't get to because you get instantly cc locked and focused down into the ground the moment you engage.

    I've literally done things like chase a single player down (usually a healer/strong ranged player) single minded to the extent they've either given up and stayed in spawn or have immediately left the battle line at the sight of me because they knew they had no way of shaking me off without their team dumping most of their cds on me, and I would kill them eventually.


    My argument is: On release monk basically had enough bulk to force a burst window open nearly indefinitely, it could take on 4v1 long enough to ramp up/dump burst and walk away. It could chase down a person nearly forever in 2v1 or even 3v1 situations safely. BUT with all the potency buffs across the board, the shield/healing buffs of monk have not been scaled to match up. As a burst/assassin type it relies on bulk to reach its optimal output but that bulk no longer exists.

    Hence my suggestions that you either give it a way to frontload/reach optimal burst state faster, or you give it back its ability to reach optimal burst state by returning it to being an unkillable cockroach. Its never been about how big the burst is, its about actually managing to reach that burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gserpent View Post

    As for not seeing MNK in crystal? Maybe your DC is different? MNK is very common on Crystal, though probably behind NIN. People on this DC seem to recognize how strong MNK is.
    It was mostly ninja, dragoon and samurai on primal. I don't think the amount of monks other than myself go past 20 yet. Dunno if thats cause its a lower rank thing but my crystal buddies say they see almost no monk either. Maybe our luck is bad?
    (0)
    Last edited by Vermillionwing; 07-06-2022 at 04:09 AM.

  10. #90
    Player
    MonteCristo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    446
    Character
    Lamonte Cristo
    World
    Seraph
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodthrone View Post
    Look at it as a tank

    Here's the problem with your logic if we wanted to play a TANK we would play a TANK RPR is a DPS and should act accordingly. I'll give you this much is good at cluching and decent at controlling the flow of the battlefield. Now given that you've never played RPR and you a speaking completely out of your ass I highly recommend you walk a mile in our shoes before you start talking down to us.

    P.S: We also have literally the slowest bust timing in pvp compared to the other dps especially when we are consistently CCed into the ground and above all else on LB.
    This this this
    (1)

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