Melee classes are sad in CC

[Gserpent]

DRG is generally seen as the weakest melee. No CC and its DPS phase *increases* damage you take - and good players aren't all going to stack up so that you can debuff all of them with your roar. Not to mention, the LB has a lengthy charge and is generally quite easy to counter by guarding or just... moving away from it. It *can* work, but against high skill players the deck is stacked against you. You would basically need to build a team around the DRG, building to enable their LB to land like it needs to, to protect the DRG when they're in Life, etc. They have great DPS and their LB is incredibly strong if you can guarantee the dunk, but they're fragile and offer no CC.

SAM is similarly not a popular pick. High skill players tend to not attack into Chiten if you have or are about to have LB, and while they don't have any major things they lack, they also don't really excel at anything. They're basically Mario. Not bad, not good, basically just the baseline. But you don't see too many people playing Mario over more specialized characters, do you? Great class for stomping newbies on your way to into Crystal, though.

At high skill, MNK, NIN, and RPR are the most common picks. MNK is tanky and has the highest sustained DPS of any melee and the ability to 100-0 casters and healers is incredibly valuable. NIN is... well, NIN. Top tier poke, great at harassing people trying to potion, and the best sweeper in the game with a toolkit that can do just about anything. RPR is tankier than most actual tanks, decent sustained DPS, and one of the best LBs in the game on the shortest charge timer. But RPR does require you personally understand how to play the class, and it does tend to perform better with teammates that understand how to play the game properly. Tenebrae Lemurum is probably the best setup ability in the game, and with such a short charge timer, it's also really good at peeling in a pinch. And because of the forced (slow) movement and guard break, it has obvious synergy with environmental effects as well.

[Runeslayer]

As someone that mains reaper in CC, I honestly think reaper is one of those classes that really depends on your team and how competent they are. I always play reaper as the backline harasser. Those ranged DPS casting or shooting with impunity while the rest rumble on the point? Yeah it's my job to take care of those, and if not my job is to help someone else who's focusing a target (you're rewarded for this too with immortal sacrifice stacks).

I find that Reapers LB is weird, but it edges over into being good because they gain it so fast-- to the point where I'm entirely comfortable solo LBing someone just to ensure they die. A good reaper will know when to go in and when to cut their losses, made easy with how hell's ingress functions. I'm constantly capping out my immortal sacrifice stacks before my next plentiful harvest is off cooldown, and when it's off I make sure Im buffed with arcane crest and I debuff with death penalty which QUICKLY stacks damage for the debuff to hit them with. I've killed so many people who think they outheal me and death penalty hits them with another 20k, meanwhile I get more LB charge.

If there is an *annoyance* though, it is chasing down a target with hysteria. You have to kinda position your LB in such a way that your main target hits a wall so it's easier to chase them down.

[WlyemR]

Everyone giving hell to Serpent for him not having a Reaper need to realize his commentary on how the job plays is spot on. If you won't take it from him, take it from someone that does play Reaper.

I play Paladin extensively in PvP and I can tell you from experience that playing a Reaper is a somewhat similar experience. A Reaper is a team fighter, you want to scrap with your team using your support ability Arcane Crest. Not only do you get a damage boost, but it heals you and your team when it breaks.

Your job as a Reaper is to pick a target of opportunity and make their life absolute hell. Death Warrant alongside your front loaded burst makes you a good assassin, which actually lines up with Reaper job lore. Get in, cut the head off the snake, and get out.

Staying alive and fighting with your team also ties into you getting Plentiful Harvest stacks. A full 8 stack Harvest can be devastating in a team fight as it's not something they will see coming like an LB.

Speaking of LB, its not fire and forget like every other melee. Using it in a bad situation will result in nothing more than a wasted LB. It breaks guard and forces movement, so using it during a scrap to open the enemy up, or during environmental traps, can swing an entire fight in your teams favor.

Your survival is your own responsibility, and as a Reaper, you have the tools necessary to keep yourself alive in extended fights, allowing you to make full use of your kit.

[Petite]

It's definitely harder on Melee DPSes ever since 6.11a.

The BLM buffs made fewer people want to be at their mercy, choosing to either play Ranged jobs (Caster, Phys-R, Healer) or GNB as they are tankier and also dish out good damage.

This resulted in teams now usually having a single melee DPS, which in turn encourages Ranged jobs to focus them down. After all, Tanks are tankier and Ranged jobs hang in the back-lines.

Good Ranged job players will choose to focus you down and keep you away from the fray, basically destroying your effectiveness.

On one hand, I don't want them to increase Melee DPSes' survivability, but on the other, something has to be done. Maybe nerfing BLMs' Feeze/Flare to 10K could be the solution so we see fewer of them while keeping them viable. They're still too strong IMO.

[Risvertasashi]

This resulted in teams now usually having a single melee DPS, which in turn encourages Ranged jobs to focus them down. After all, Tanks are tanky and rangeds hang in the back-lines.

Not that you don't raise a fair point, but - some melees have as much HP as a tank, and personal mitigation in addition to the survival tools everyone gets. And... tanks are not really that tanky (warrior kind of is), they can all be focused down pretty quick outside of specific windows.

[Petite]

Not that you don't raise a fair point, but - some melees have as much HP as a tank, and personal mitigation in addition to the survival tools everyone gets. And... tanks are not really that tanky (warrior kind of is), they can all be focused down pretty quick outside of specific windows.

I meant in general. It's why I wrote tankier.

[Karasio]

I like playing dragoon but not having a single bit of CC or ranged harass of any kind is fucking painful. Like I can burst someone down pretty low and all I can do is watch them walk away as they CC me because oh look, I'm playing the only fucking melee job with 0 CC whatsoever. It's just really fucking frustrating. The damage mitigation tool requires me to get close to enemies as well, cool. LB actually has counterplay unlike the others. Pain. That's all I have to say as a dragoon player.

[Vatom]

No you're wrong

Idk if your being serious or joking now

wasn't mocking you just thought that post was genuinely funny
I guess I could have worded that better

Ninja LB is really good though I would only say they should get maybe a damage immunity for a few seconds during activation.
Nothing big just something so I don't get killed
Tenchu is busted when you know when to use it but you shouldn't think of it as having a weakness thats not what it is for
instead think of it as a i get to kill everybody below 50% if you want to or not
Also if your ever on a map that has environment dmg it's op OP collecting is everthing with it and it come back fast

Yeah do it think it would be awesome

am I the only that uses map environments as a LB generator instead of dmg

Nah I use them all the time its busted one certain classes like MNK NIN RPR MCH GNB etc

[Gserpent]

It's definitely harder on Melee DPSes ever since 6.11a.

The BLM buffs made fewer people want to be at their mercy, choosing to either play Ranged jobs (Caster, Phys-R, Healer) or GNB as they are tankier and also dish out good damage.

This resulted in teams now usually having a single melee DPS, which in turn encourages Ranged jobs to focus them down. After all, Tanks are tankier and Ranged jobs hang in the back-lines.

Good Ranged job players will choose to focus you down and keep you away from the fray, basically destroying your effectiveness.

On one hand, I don't want them to increase Melee DPSes' survivability, but on the other, something has to be done. Maybe nerfing BLMs' Feeze/Flare to 10K could be the solution so we see fewer of them while keeping them viable. They're still too strong IMO.

BLM is fine. Melee are fine.

If anything, melee are arguably more meta than ranged because of how damned hard it is to kill them in team fights. All melee have some means of self-sustain beyond the expected potions, and these are available more often/are more potent than typical caster/ranged defensives (SMN is the only exception here, being quite possibly the strongest buff in the entire game.) And, obviously, they have a lot more HP.

SAM: Meikyo cleanses a debuff, Chiten is 25% DR and 2000 thorns damage for 5/30 sec, Ogi procs an 8k shield when used for AOE, and Oka is a 5k AOE that has 100% leech.

DRG: Horrid Roar is effectively 50% DR for 10/30 sec on targets affected, Chaotic Spring is 8k with 100% leech, LB generates a shield equal to 25% HP, and Elusive Jump cleanses two types of debuff and grants sprint. They are generally the most twiggy melee, but Horrid Roar is the most effective "DR" in the game while it's active. Probably the highest skill floor in terms of "don't die like a chump" among melee.



RPR: Crest produces a 12k shield and then produces a 6k*2 Regen effect in an AOE after the shield is consumed, on a 20 sec cooldown. Harvest Moon is a 4-8k hit with 100% leech.

MNK: Riddle of Earth is like a personal Macrocosmos (though doesn't automatically pop like Macro does, for some incredibly stupid reason), and produces a 6k shield on themselves any time they dash to an enemy (3 charges/10 sec.)

NIN: NIN is probably the most durable non-PLD in the game. Probably *more* durable than PLD if we count their ability to evade attacks on top of their skills. But for reference, Shukuchi is a teleport on 15 sec cd, Huton is a 16k shield plus sprint on a 15 sec charge, and Meisui is an 8k heal plus 4k*5 regen.

Casters and ranged, on the other hand, typically get a single defensive skill and that's it. You'll notice that all of the melee have at least one core defensive skill and then typically a life leech skill (Riddle of Earth is basically MNK's leech skill), on top of their higher HP. Melee are pretty chufty.

They also generally have a good mix of DPS and CC. All-melee teams can absolutely obliterate ranged-heavy teams simply by virtue of out-tanking the damage and bursting the much flimsier casters down. Think about how much less effective ranged and casters are when they have a melee stuck to them. Ranged only have the advantage on the *approach.* But if an entire team initiates together and intelligently, you can mitigate that advantage substantially.

[Vatom]

They also generally have a good mix of DPS and CC. All-melee teams can absolutely obliterate ranged-heavy teams simply by virtue of out-tanking the damage and bursting the much flimsier casters down. Think about how much less effective ranged and casters are when they have a melee stuck to them. Ranged only have the advantage on the *approach.* But if an entire team initiates together and intelligently, you can mitigate that advantage substantially.

Range advantage is more of if Im not getting hit its free dmg
Yeah gap closer help melee get there but if range is dumping dmg first its free dmg
but I do agree a team of melee can stomp a team of range an this is due to the fact that the free dmg can't happen more prevalent
when everyone is coming for you
This is mitigate with CC and good team play but its not an easy fight
Also sage can turn themselves into a semi tank probably one of the few that can get away with it
I think it makes sense to have melee with sustain since they are in the fight more often