Melee classes are sad in CC

[Bloodthrone]

That's the issue I face most of the time when I talk with players that are attached to strict Job Roles.

Them : RPR is supposed to be a DPS!
Me : It kind of is but it also kind of plays like a tank.
Them : Then it's a TANK! Me no play TANK!
Me : Well, not really. It's still a DPS, but you just have tools to let you survive.
Them : Then RPR is DPS?!
Me : No, no, no. It's not any of those, PvP doesn't really have roles like that.
Them : Which role is RPR?!
Me : It's like a tanky, debuffer, DPS, that has ranged abilities, designed to jump in and out and build LB to spam.
Them : But RPR supposed to be DPS?!
Me :

Reaper is just reaper. Learn to tank, git gud at survival and how to choose your battles, then you can play it like a DPS.[/QUOTE]

I would argue the class design for RPR is somewhat poor though. They intend this class to play Tank and Dps at the same time and make both sides kind of mediocre so both sides work off each other which leads to a very tedious play style which most other classes don't go through. That's a problem in the long run and having a consistent play style would greatly improve the experience and make RPR less redundant.

[Gserpent]

I would argue the class design for RPR is somewhat poor though. They intend this class to play Tank and Dps at the same time and make both sides kind of mediocre so both sides work off each other which leads to a very tedious play style which most other classes don't go through. That's a problem in the long run and having a consistent play style would greatly improve the experience and make RPR less redundant.

RPR isn't mediocre, though. Its DPS is quite good for a tank, and it is *by far* the most durable melee. Giving your team a cure 3 every 20 sec is huge in teamfights. Death Warrant can result in large burst amounts when stacked properly and their LB is probably one of the top 3 in the entire game.

The class isn't playing against itself. It works very, very well. It's possible that you have more work to do on your knowledge of the class and how it fits into various scenarios, but that's not something SE can fix with a patch. All of your suggested changes would do nothing but make the class overpowered and turn it into the next BLM. The class is fine and quite strong - I think you just need more practice with it, and maybe less trying to force it to be a MNK or DRG and more playing it as it's designed to be.

[MonteCristo]

RPR isn't mediocre, though. Its DPS is quite good for a tank, and it is *by far* the most durable melee. Giving your team a cure 3 every 20 sec is huge in teamfights. Death Warrant can result in large burst amounts when stacked properly and their LB is probably one of the top 3 in the entire game.

The class isn't playing against itself. It works very, very well. It's possible that you have more work to do on your knowledge of the class and how it fits into various scenarios, but that's not something SE can fix with a patch. All of your suggested changes would do nothing but make the class overpowered and turn it into the next BLM. The class is fine and quite strong - I think you just need more practice with it, and maybe less trying to force it to be a MNK or DRG and more playing it as it's designed to be.

What do u say to all the players, reddit, discord, youtubers and tier lists that consistently rank it as the lowest grade melee dps currently. Including the higher skilled reapers who also agree? (I have receipts dont worry).

[Gserpent]

What do u say to all the players, reddit, discord, youtubers and tier lists that consistently rank it as the lowest grade melee dps currently. Including the higher skilled reapers who also agree? (I have receipts dont worry).

I'd say they don't know what they're talking about, frankly. And they're probably judging RPR by "omg low DPS" because they don't understand RPR's actual role and purpose.

Buffs and nerfs to classes will happen if they happen. I don't think RPR really needs any, and I think that if it does meaningfully more DPS than it does now, the class will be greatly overpowered because of all the other things it brings to the table... when played correctly. We'll have to wait for 6.2 to see how SE seems to want to handle things. They've mentioned they look at win rates and pick rates, but SCH is pretty near the bottom (especially in pick rates), yet it received no changes in 6.18 - which is good, because it doesn't need any.

So I'm on hopium here, taking it as a potential good sign that they can look beyond questionable data like pick rates and win rates to more objectively measure classes and determine whether or not they need changes. But it'll be 6.2 before we can really make a judgement call either way.

I think RPR could receive some QoL changes or minor buffs here or there and it not really affect anything. "Balanced" doesn't necessarily mean "will become unbalanced if anything changes." But we're talking like a small reduction to Communio cast time, or reducing LB cast animation to 0.80 sec from 1.00 sec, stuff like that. Certainly not the kinds of things people have been asking for in this thread, for the most part.

[ShinyChariot]

They've mentioned they look at win rates and pick rates, but SCH is pretty near the bottom (especially in pick rates), yet it received no changes in 6.18 - which is good, because it doesn't need any.

SCH is based. I can attest to that.

[MonteCristo]

I'd say they don't know what they're talking about, frankly. And they're probably judging RPR by "omg low DPS" because they don't understand RPR's actual role and purpose.

Buffs and nerfs to classes will happen if they happen. I don't think RPR really needs any, and I think that if it does meaningfully more DPS than it does now, the class will be greatly overpowered because of all the other things it brings to the table... when played correctly. We'll have to wait for 6.2 to see how SE seems to want to handle things. They've mentioned they look at win rates and pick rates, but SCH is pretty near the bottom (especially in pick rates), yet it received no changes in 6.18 - which is good, because it doesn't need any.

So I'm on hopium here, taking it as a potential good sign that they can look beyond questionable data like pick rates and win rates to more objectively measure classes and determine whether or not they need changes. But it'll be 6.2 before we can really make a judgement call either way.

I think RPR could receive some QoL changes or minor buffs here or there and it not really affect anything. "Balanced" doesn't necessarily mean "will become unbalanced if anything changes." But we're talking like a small reduction to Communio cast time, or reducing LB cast animation to 0.80 sec from 1.00 sec, stuff like that. Certainly not the kinds of things people have been asking for in this thread, for the most part.

I have to admit i took your advice....got solid but limited(limited=was already doing alot of what was advised) advice from rpr mentors on pvp revival, watched some more selfhelp CC guides,talked with a few other high ranked rprs, adjusted my strat to hybrid tank, and changed my approach to the job. All to find out that....you are still wrong about the job being "just fine the way it is"

[ShinyChariot]

I have to admit i took your advice....got solid but limited(limited=was already doing alot of what was advised) advice from rpr mentors on pvp revival, watched some more selfhelp CC guides,talked with a few other high ranked rprs, adjusted my strat to hybrid tank, and changed my approach to the job. All to find out that....you are still wrong about the job being "just fine the way it is"

That's fair, I'm pretty happy you're on the way. I agree it needs a bit more help to be friendlier in general. Keep it at, my guy.

[MonteCristo]

That's fair, I'm pretty happy you're on the way. I agree it needs a bit more help to be friendlier in general. Keep it at, my guy.

Broke into platinum finally today tho so maybe my credibility is goin up

[Gserpent]

I have to admit i took your advice....got solid but limited(limited=was already doing alot of what was advised) advice from rpr mentors on pvp revival, watched some more selfhelp CC guides,talked with a few other high ranked rprs, adjusted my strat to hybrid tank, and changed my approach to the job. All to find out that....you are still wrong about the job being "just fine the way it is"

What, specifically, do they believe isn't okay the way it is? RPR has good damage, exceptional durability, and probably top 3 teamplay behind only AST and PLD. I really don't see much room for improvements without the class becoming just plain overpowered.

But good on you for working on improving. That already puts you ahead of the vast majority of players. Keep it up and you're guaranteed to make it to crystal

[ShinyChariot]

RPR isn't mediocre, though. Its DPS is quite good for a tank, and it is *by far* the most durable melee.

True and real.

If you don't know how to retreat without dying you might need to play something else. Teleport gives you movement speed and barrier should be back up during your retreat, not to mention you even might have a heavy debuff to use to keep people behind you while you run to the next potion. How are people dying on reaper? You should be chugging potions every 2 engagements.

Giving your team a cure 3 every 20 sec is huge in teamfights. Death Warrant can result in large burst amounts when stacked properly and their LB is probably one of the top 3 in the entire game.

This. People just don't know how to barrier and burst on one target. I have no idea how people are unable to do this.

And I mentioned barrier specifically because a lot of supposed reaper mains probably don't even know you meant the barrier when you said "cure 3". They'll look over their hot bar, see that it doesn't have an AoE heal, and tell you for the 10th time you don't get to have an opinion because you don't play it. Because apparently, playing it means you get to talk about it like you know it, which a lot of people don't seem to. Reaper is not that hard to understand for people with PvP brains, and you obviously do, I don't care if you didn't play it, because you're right.

The class isn't playing against itself. It works very, very well. It's possible that you have more work to do on your knowledge of the class and how it fits into various scenarios, but that's not something SE can fix with a patch. All of your suggested changes would do nothing but make the class overpowered and turn it into the next BLM. The class is fine and quite strong - I think you just need more practice with it, and maybe less trying to force it to be a MNK or DRG and more playing it as it's designed to be.

Man if they overpower reaper and any idiot gets to be "good" at it because they gave it potency and skill adjustments even a caveman could use, I'd...

...continue to dunk people on reaper because I still know how to play it properly. Thanks for the power-up.

Honestly it doesn't matter how many times they change or buff it, you can't fix a player's bad decisions, unawareness when it comes to the situation, or inability to not get killed. People that are good at a class have nothing to complain about. I was great at the first version of BLM and wondered what all the fuss was about.

Yoshi P said it himself.

"Having said this, my personal impression after countless Crystalline Conflict matches is that, in the hands of a skilled PvP combatant, the black mage has more than enough potential to excel in battle."
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ac1af14c1e3107

Some people just aren't skilled RPR players. Hopefully they know this is the case and just leave RPRs alone, besides some small adjustments. Honestly, people, go play something else, don't dumb down this job.