Melee classes are sad in CC

[SirShady]

Reaper stuff

In a vacuum, it sounds amazing, but the difference is circumstances and uptime of poly versus Reaper LB. The AoE generally doesn't matter too much since in higher ranks players don't stand next to each other if they can help it, especially if they're the one being focused and running low on resources. The entire point of stuns/silences/fears is that they're much more effective on low-health targets since it allows you to burst them before they recuperate. You will rarely see multiple members of the enemy team below 50% since focusing targets is so important. So the main usage of the LB is generally to cc one person (more if you're lucky) for 2 seconds and hopefully not be animation locked for too long so you and your team can finish them off. The guard break however, is really nice, but I'd argue that you can get a lot more easy value out of Monk LB than Reaper... And this is coming from someone who has also played Monk to crystal rank.

Making RPR do more DPS will help it provide value outside of a 2 second CC and some personal survivability. Its consistent damage isn't anywhere near as high as other jobs, and its burst is pretty close to non-existent outside of the occasional stacked Plentiful Harvest. I'm not asking for sweeping buffs or anything, but it doesn't feel like it does its job as a DPS or faux-tank well enough. It honestly kind of feels like a half-baked Paladin with none of the unique utility. Does still have that guard break though.

I definitely would not say heavy and bind are as deadly as a stun or silence. You can still guard and recuperate while affected by them, which is the primary way of avoiding death for all jobs regardless of circumstances like LoS. Sure, the niche use of using them to stop someone from reaching a medkit is nice when it happens, but stuns do that too on top of preventing them from using their buttons. Same applies to LoS. Overall it's nowhere near the value of just completely preventing someone from using their toolkit and killing them with no counterplay outside of having purify up.

Honestly I wish we could just look at winrates of jobs. It's hard to argue either way without any sort of empirical evidence. What I can say though, is that Reaper was used twice in the PVP tournament series I watched with a 50% winrate, while other melee jobs were used throughout.

[MonteCristo]

I agree...also funny thing is (since reaper is perfect according to delusional serpent) there is also a thread on reddit about the new pvp 6.18 changes and low and behold players mention reaper SEVERAL times about being the weakest melee. Here is a bit from elo player i found interesting and completely cosign:

Anonymous Reaper-

Even in high Elo Reaper isn't as useful as you think, I played majority of top 100 all season, and although its fear is fantastic, it has the lowest damage of all classes in pvp. Not only does it have the lowest damage, it's Plentiful harvest takes over 1 minute 30 seconds without dying to full stack it. There are fixes reaper need. It is still considered one of the worst classes in high elo, even with meme fear wins by fearing off the objective with no time left.

Edit: I figure I should add, I climbed from no rank to crystal playing reaper, as well as roughly playing around 100 games within crystal as well. Not only did I play Reaper, but I played dragoon, monk, ninja, smn, and mch all in the top bracket for 2 months.

Reaper is by far the weakest class in all of pvp, not even debatable imo.

There are two major fixes that would help them a lot. Make communio have no cast time, and make plentiful harvest easier to stack, Its reapers only big hit outside of communio, and it takes 2 life times to stack.. it isn't even funny. Alternatively, you could also make it so you don't lose stacks on death. Either or.

[Gserpent]

stuff

It's not really in a vacuum, though. It's in actual play. Reaper LB is literally just "bigger badder polymorph," plus the DPS buff. I think you, like so many others, are grossly underestimating how incredibly powerful guard break is. It's not suppressing Guard, it's *ending* it. 30 sec cooldown wasted. It takes you 45 sec to charge your LB without any modifiers (Plentiful Harvest, Spire, etc.) It's a 30 sec cooldown on Guard - if you forced a Guard early in a fight, you will probably be able to break their next Guard with LB. That's insanely powerful. You also get a teleport skill you can use to precisely target your LB, unlike MNK (who is single target, takes longer to charge, and can only go to where their target is.) Meteodrive is almost never used to break Guard, instead being used for the uninterruptible 36k combo.

RPR already does pretty solid DPS. You're forgetting that you're doing 8k per GCD after LB, plus the Communio at the end. I don't think it needs more DPS. Look at it as a tank, and not a DPS, and you'll see its numbers are fine.

Heavy and Bind are at least as strong as silence and stun. Having longer durations and shorter cooldowns is part of why. If making people unable to LOS your team isn't leading to kills or pressure... well, sorry to say, your team is apparently off licking windows or something. Better luck next game? Doesn't mean those effects are weak.

Winrates don't matter. They're a horrible metric to use for balance changes. I also don't really care what's been going on in recent tournaments, because the sample size is *way* too small to draw anything meaningful from. All of the teams were just doing "solo queue meta," with no real attempts to break that or shake it up. The game is too new, and the complete lack of an actual competitive circuit (Team Ranked when?) makes tournaments of questionable value at best.

It's like looking at TI1 and trying to draw data from that, or something.