Melee classes are sad in CC

[WlyemR]

Everyone giving hell to Serpent for him not having a Reaper need to realize his commentary on how the job plays is spot on. If you won't take it from him, take it from someone that does play Reaper.

I play Paladin extensively in PvP and I can tell you from experience that playing a Reaper is a somewhat similar experience. A Reaper is a team fighter, you want to scrap with your team using your support ability Arcane Crest. Not only do you get a damage boost, but it heals you and your team when it breaks.

Your job as a Reaper is to pick a target of opportunity and make their life absolute hell. Death Warrant alongside your front loaded burst makes you a good assassin, which actually lines up with Reaper job lore. Get in, cut the head off the snake, and get out.

Staying alive and fighting with your team also ties into you getting Plentiful Harvest stacks. A full 8 stack Harvest can be devastating in a team fight as it's not something they will see coming like an LB.

Speaking of LB, its not fire and forget like every other melee. Using it in a bad situation will result in nothing more than a wasted LB. It breaks guard and forces movement, so using it during a scrap to open the enemy up, or during environmental traps, can swing an entire fight in your teams favor.

Your survival is your own responsibility, and as a Reaper, you have the tools necessary to keep yourself alive in extended fights, allowing you to make full use of your kit.

[Petite]

It's definitely harder on Melee DPSes ever since 6.11a.

The BLM buffs made fewer people want to be at their mercy, choosing to either play Ranged jobs (Caster, Phys-R, Healer) or GNB as they are tankier and also dish out good damage.

This resulted in teams now usually having a single melee DPS, which in turn encourages Ranged jobs to focus them down. After all, Tanks are tankier and Ranged jobs hang in the back-lines.

Good Ranged job players will choose to focus you down and keep you away from the fray, basically destroying your effectiveness.

On one hand, I don't want them to increase Melee DPSes' survivability, but on the other, something has to be done. Maybe nerfing BLMs' Feeze/Flare to 10K could be the solution so we see fewer of them while keeping them viable. They're still too strong IMO.

[Risvertasashi]

This resulted in teams now usually having a single melee DPS, which in turn encourages Ranged jobs to focus them down. After all, Tanks are tanky and rangeds hang in the back-lines.

Not that you don't raise a fair point, but - some melees have as much HP as a tank, and personal mitigation in addition to the survival tools everyone gets. And... tanks are not really that tanky (warrior kind of is), they can all be focused down pretty quick outside of specific windows.

[Petite]

Not that you don't raise a fair point, but - some melees have as much HP as a tank, and personal mitigation in addition to the survival tools everyone gets. And... tanks are not really that tanky (warrior kind of is), they can all be focused down pretty quick outside of specific windows.

I meant in general. It's why I wrote tankier.

[Gserpent]

It's definitely harder on Melee DPSes ever since 6.11a.

The BLM buffs made fewer people want to be at their mercy, choosing to either play Ranged jobs (Caster, Phys-R, Healer) or GNB as they are tankier and also dish out good damage.

This resulted in teams now usually having a single melee DPS, which in turn encourages Ranged jobs to focus them down. After all, Tanks are tankier and Ranged jobs hang in the back-lines.

Good Ranged job players will choose to focus you down and keep you away from the fray, basically destroying your effectiveness.

On one hand, I don't want them to increase Melee DPSes' survivability, but on the other, something has to be done. Maybe nerfing BLMs' Feeze/Flare to 10K could be the solution so we see fewer of them while keeping them viable. They're still too strong IMO.

BLM is fine. Melee are fine.

If anything, melee are arguably more meta than ranged because of how damned hard it is to kill them in team fights. All melee have some means of self-sustain beyond the expected potions, and these are available more often/are more potent than typical caster/ranged defensives (SMN is the only exception here, being quite possibly the strongest buff in the entire game.) And, obviously, they have a lot more HP.

SAM: Meikyo cleanses a debuff, Chiten is 25% DR and 2000 thorns damage for 5/30 sec, Ogi procs an 8k shield when used for AOE, and Oka is a 5k AOE that has 100% leech.

DRG: Horrid Roar is effectively 50% DR for 10/30 sec on targets affected, Chaotic Spring is 8k with 100% leech, LB generates a shield equal to 25% HP, and Elusive Jump cleanses two types of debuff and grants sprint. They are generally the most twiggy melee, but Horrid Roar is the most effective "DR" in the game while it's active. Probably the highest skill floor in terms of "don't die like a chump" among melee.



RPR: Crest produces a 12k shield and then produces a 6k*2 Regen effect in an AOE after the shield is consumed, on a 20 sec cooldown. Harvest Moon is a 4-8k hit with 100% leech.

MNK: Riddle of Earth is like a personal Macrocosmos (though doesn't automatically pop like Macro does, for some incredibly stupid reason), and produces a 6k shield on themselves any time they dash to an enemy (3 charges/10 sec.)

NIN: NIN is probably the most durable non-PLD in the game. Probably *more* durable than PLD if we count their ability to evade attacks on top of their skills. But for reference, Shukuchi is a teleport on 15 sec cd, Huton is a 16k shield plus sprint on a 15 sec charge, and Meisui is an 8k heal plus 4k*5 regen.

Casters and ranged, on the other hand, typically get a single defensive skill and that's it. You'll notice that all of the melee have at least one core defensive skill and then typically a life leech skill (Riddle of Earth is basically MNK's leech skill), on top of their higher HP. Melee are pretty chufty.

They also generally have a good mix of DPS and CC. All-melee teams can absolutely obliterate ranged-heavy teams simply by virtue of out-tanking the damage and bursting the much flimsier casters down. Think about how much less effective ranged and casters are when they have a melee stuck to them. Ranged only have the advantage on the *approach.* But if an entire team initiates together and intelligently, you can mitigate that advantage substantially.

[Vatom]

They also generally have a good mix of DPS and CC. All-melee teams can absolutely obliterate ranged-heavy teams simply by virtue of out-tanking the damage and bursting the much flimsier casters down. Think about how much less effective ranged and casters are when they have a melee stuck to them. Ranged only have the advantage on the *approach.* But if an entire team initiates together and intelligently, you can mitigate that advantage substantially.

Range advantage is more of if Im not getting hit its free dmg
Yeah gap closer help melee get there but if range is dumping dmg first its free dmg
but I do agree a team of melee can stomp a team of range an this is due to the fact that the free dmg can't happen more prevalent
when everyone is coming for you
This is mitigate with CC and good team play but its not an easy fight
Also sage can turn themselves into a semi tank probably one of the few that can get away with it
I think it makes sense to have melee with sustain since they are in the fight more often

[Gserpent]

Range advantage is more of if Im not getting hit its free dmg
Yeah gap closer help melee get there but if range is dumping dmg first its free dmg
but I do agree a team of melee can stomp a team of range an this is due to the fact that the free dmg can't happen more prevalent
when everyone is coming for you
This is mitigate with CC and good team play but its not an easy fight
Also sage can turn themselves into a semi tank probably one of the few that can get away with it
I think it makes sense to have melee with sustain since they are in the fight more often

Yup, and that's why they have more sustain than ranged. Tanks generally have the strongest defensives and they typically get healing/leech on their 3rd combo hit (or on Atonement hits in PLD's case), but they generally only have *one* defensive button whereas melee often get two (or at least have better mobility so they're more likely to avoid damage.)

At low skill, I can see why people feel ranged have an unfair advantage. Low skill players are probably not fully comfortable with the playstyle of their class(es), don't fully understand the game mode or maps, and a team of low skill players is highly unlikely to initiate properly. On the other hand, low skill players are also unlikely to properly focus or swap targets and will probably never peel. I could easily see someone posting "ranged classes are sad in CC" because some enemy melee sat on them and their team didn't bother trying to peel for them.

Ultimately, it's just a skill issue. At high skill, there are no real "melee vs ranged" issues. There are some relatively minor class balance issues and I think there are some systemic issues with CC itself, but neither ranged nor melee are too strong/weak generally.