GNB Adjustments

[waterboytkd]

Right now, GNB has an identity issue. Tanks are supposed to be your fight initiators and frontline brawlers, but right now, GNB doesn't do that well (hell, SAM is a better frontline brawler, imo).

So some quick adjustments I had in mind to allow GNB to better fulfill that role:

• Continuation always uses the Junction Tank Bonus (no matter what you've last used Draw and Junction on). This allows the GNB to have the self sustain to frontline.
• Junctioned Cast gets replaced with Nebula, which you always have access to. This is the last needed piece to be a stable frontliner.
• Draw and Junction gets an overhaul. First, reduce the recast time to 20 seconds.
• Second, it no longer grants Powder Barrel nor one of the existing Junctions.
• Third, it can now target allies or enemies.
• Fourth, it now has a 15y draw-in effect on the target (I know, I know, that's not what the Draw is referring to in the ability name, but it still works!), so you can in theory use it to rescue allies or yoink enemies for a gank.
• Fifth, once used, it grants Junctioned with Ally (if used on an ally) or Junctioned with Enemy (if used on an enemy). Either lasts for 20 seconds.
• Junctioned with Ally changes Draw and Junction into Aurora, which will consume Junctioned with Ally upon use.
• Junctioned with Enemy changes Draw and Junction into Blasting Zone, which will consume Junctioned with Enemy upon use.

It's not much, but it would give some much needed consistency to the class, allowing it to fulfill its role as a frontline fighter, and it gives it at least 1 piece of cc outside of the LB with a draw-in. I guess the one thing worth pointing out is that you would have access to Nebula as well as one of either Blasting Zone or Aurora. I think this would be okay, though, as your Continuation can no longer get the bigger Damage Potency or the AoE Heal effect.

EDIT: If having access to Nebula + Blasting Zone/Aurora is too good (and it might be), then maybe give a third functionality to Draw and Junction: if you can target yourself, too, and if you do, you get Junction with Self, which lets you use Nebula. Kinda weird, but it could work. That said, GNB is largely considered a bottom tier class with DNC right now, and so having Nebula + one of the others off Draw and Junction could push the class into a solid performer.

[Gserpent]

Way overcomplicating things. Revert the No Mercy buff (or at least the healing component), allow Draw and Junction to target allies. Ta-da, GNB is fixed.

GNB is currently the highest DPS tank *and* the highest durability tank *and* the tank with the most healing/support all at the same time. The only thing preventing them from being so broken that they can just roll their face on the keyboard is that they can only access one of these playstyles at a time, and it's on a cooldown. Not being able to draw from allies is dumb and needs fixed, but at the same time, this would make it more likely they have access to all three modes in any given game, which is why the healing component of No Mercy needs to be reverted back to 10%.

They lack CC, but this is an important balancing factor. If you think of each class as a square or pentagon or something, with different points being things like durability, DPS, "support", control, etc... no class is allowed to have all of them. Every class skews in typically two directions, with the other two being left low. This is a crucial aspect to balancing things, and what you're wanting is a GNB that would basically get everything all at once. No thanks.

People that think GNB ult sucks honestly just suck at playing GNB, straight up. It's a 60 sec charge timer that gives 25% DR for its duration and applies a stacking 5% vuln up effect on everyone in the AOE (including through Guard) and can be ended for a 12k dmg 3 sec stun. Yes, you can be stunned during it, but you're too focused on "waaah, I didn't get to do my thing!" instead of realizing, your ult is so powerful it forces enemies to run away or stun you out of it. And remember, it's a *60 second* charge timer. It's up pretty much every major clash.

I realize that this playerbase probably doesn't have a lot of experience with competitive games of this style (MOBAs being the most comparable type of game, DotA more than LoL or the others), and probably even less analyzing them, but something that *forces* the enemy to do something they don't want to do *is very strong.* If they *don't* interrupt your ult, you're stacking 20% vuln up on at least one person and stunning everyone nearby for 3 sec and hitting them for 14.4k, and during your ult you aren't an attractive target because of the 25% DR. If they *do* stun you out of it, that's a key skill that's used up to stop your ult instead of prevent someone from healing, to peel the MNK off their mage, etc. Relentless Rush is *really, really* good. You just need to learn how to use it in an optimal fashion. You want to force the enemy to react to it, to burn cooldowns on it that they'd rather have saved for something else.

[waterboytkd]

The problem with your solution is that it doesn't actually address the issue with GNB at all: you have little agency over which role you bring to the team. Even if you can target teammates, if there's no tanks on your team, and none on the enemy team, then you *aren't the highest durability tank* because you have 0 durability abilities. Same for healer. The same would be true for damage, but no dps classes in a match is an impossibility.

The idea is to give them a single role. That role being "durable frontline fighter", and making Continuation *only* have the self barrier effect does that.

How on earth do they get "everything all at once"? They still don't have an on-demand stun, slow, root, silence, etc. A single draw-in, with no other cc attached, on a 20s cooldown suddenly becomes "everything all at once"?

Also, why did you bring up their LB, or my ability to use it? I literally said nothing about LB.

[Shikiseki]

People really have to realize that the job's role outside pvp does absolutely not dictate its job fantasy especially in pvp where everyone's a dps.
It's not supposed to be tanky or did you see Squall in FF8 be the tank of the group? He was the most straightforward combo focused one with additional magic enhancement drawing and junctioning enemy power to unleash later on. What he did lack in defenses, he made up with damage, speed and magic stat buffs.

If anything, Draw should have it's CD reduced significantly and gain role boost powers depending on the junction they are in.

[Ixon]

My first thought was to make DnJ target allies, but the issue I would have is the amount of macro's I would need to DnJ mid fight. Right now I have 5 DnJ macro's so I can hot swap at any time to a specific enemy target in CC matches without having to target them. Having the ability to DnJ self or allies would force me to make more macro's to keep that functionality. My best suggestion is still to make DnJ similar to RDM Black/White shift, but instead you swap between roles from Tank to Healer to DPS and back again. This would allow on the fly flexibility without the need of a target or multiple target macro's.

As for the other items mentioned, personally I like the stances and what they do, I just wish getting to them was easier than it is now. I like having the ability to go full DPS or go full healer when a situation calls for it, it just needs to be easier to get to.

The Junction with Ally/Enemy sounds good on paper, but would suffer the same issues I listed earlier, where you would need 9 macro's so you can target who you want, when you want, as fast as possible.

Hard disagree that No Mercy needs to be reverted. The only thing GNB does well is damage and healing. It has no CC outside of LB(unlike Shield Bash or Primal Rend) and no other utility to make up for it(TBN, Cover, heal down on Plunge, etc.), so that should stay as it is.

In the end, I still want to keep the role it has now, as I think it is unique and interesting and even fun at times. I just wish they made it easier to accomplish and then I think GNB will be just fine.

[waterboytkd]

My best suggestion is still to make DnJ similar to RDM Black/White shift, but instead you swap between roles from Tank to Healer to DPS and back again. This would allow on the fly flexibility without the need of a target or multiple target macro's.

This would work, too. I'd bet it'd create interesting data, too. Average percent of match in certain stances, with win rates and stuff to correlate.

[Gserpent]

My first thought was to make DnJ target allies, but the issue I would have is the amount of macro's I would need to DnJ mid fight. Right now I have 5 DnJ macro's so I can hot swap at any time to a specific enemy target in CC matches without having to target them. Having the ability to DnJ self or allies would force me to make more macro's to keep that functionality. My best suggestion is still to make DnJ similar to RDM Black/White shift, but instead you swap between roles from Tank to Healer to DPS and back again. This would allow on the fly flexibility without the need of a target or multiple target macro's.

As for the other items mentioned, personally I like the stances and what they do, I just wish getting to them was easier than it is now. I like having the ability to go full DPS or go full healer when a situation calls for it, it just needs to be easier to get to.

The Junction with Ally/Enemy sounds good on paper, but would suffer the same issues I listed earlier, where you would need 9 macro's so you can target who you want, when you want, as fast as possible.

Hard disagree that No Mercy needs to be reverted. The only thing GNB does well is damage and healing. It has no CC outside of LB(unlike Shield Bash or Primal Rend) and no other utility to make up for it(TBN, Cover, heal down on Plunge, etc.), so that should stay as it is.

In the end, I still want to keep the role it has now, as I think it is unique and interesting and even fun at times. I just wish they made it easier to accomplish and then I think GNB will be just fine.

You don't need macros. You should have target enemy and target ally keybound. F1, 5, F2. Target enemy, draw on them, switch back to who you were attacking earlier (there's probably a target last target option you can bind, too.) It can be done in less than a second. Same is true for allies. You are being very inefficient with keybind space if you're actually creating targeting macros instead of just using proper keybinds.

GNB only does damage and healing, but it does **too much** healing and shielding with +20%. It's completely overpowered and needs to be nerfed, *especially* if we're changing things such that the GNB can always have access to their pick of stance (which *needs* to happen because the class is unnecessarily clunky without it.) Aurora is an almost 10k instant heal on demand, plus a powerful regen. At least Aspected Benefic requires them to be under half and has a much lower regen. 20% bonus to shielding makes GNB *by far* the tankiest tank, while still doing quite a lot more DPS than PLD does.

That's not acceptable. That's broken, and it needs to be reverted. Keep the 20% damage boost, that's fine. But the healing boost has got to go.

[Ixon]

You don't need macros. You should have target enemy and target ally keybound. F1, 5, F2. Target enemy, draw on them, switch back to who you were attacking earlier (there's probably a target last target option you can bind, too.) It can be done in less than a second. Same is true for allies. You are being very inefficient with keybind space if you're actually creating targeting macros instead of just using proper keybinds.

GNB only does damage and healing, but it does **too much** healing and shielding with +20%. It's completely overpowered and needs to be nerfed, *especially* if we're changing things such that the GNB can always have access to their pick of stance (which *needs* to happen because the class is unnecessarily clunky without it.) Aurora is an almost 10k instant heal on demand, plus a powerful regen. At least Aspected Benefic requires them to be under half and has a much lower regen. 20% bonus to shielding makes GNB *by far* the tankiest tank, while still doing quite a lot more DPS than PLD does.

That's not acceptable. That's broken, and it needs to be reverted. Keep the 20% damage boost, that's fine. But the healing boost has got to go.

Having to press 3 keys mid combat for a single desired effect, not to mention swapping focus from your main target at the time to target another just for this, is just not optimal. DnJ is an oGCD. With a Macro I can swap to who I want, when I want, even in the middle of a Gnashing Combo with minimal fear of clipping my GCD so I can maintain uptime and maintain damage on the enemy. I guarantee I can do faster with a macro than if I was doing it manually. It's why people use macros in the first place, across almost every job, with almost every player. It's faster and more accurate in specific situations.

Idk if you have looked at the leaderboards, or looked at the tournaments that have been happening, but there aren't many GNB's. Like, I am one of about two-ish on the Aether leaderboard. Like I said, GNB is the equivalent of DRG or SGE but for Tanks. No hard CC, but a lot of damage. That's the balance. You're "super powerful Aurora" comes at the cost of doing much less damage than either DPS or Tank stance, while having less sustain than Tank stance. Besides, you don't really swap to healer stance for Aurora, you swap to heal stance for the AoE heals on the oGCD that can be very good in very specific situations.

The healing boost is so minimal, I am curious what you have ever seen as "overpowered", because in over 1k games on GNB, I don't agree. The ONLY instances where the healer stance is good to have in in heavy melee comps, usually on Lava Map, or in Overtime. Situations where you can hit the most people with the AoE healing that is the main reason why you would go into healer stance in the first place. And even then, your damage and personal sustain are gutted, hence why it is balanced.

Not to mention GNB is far from being the best tank at the moment. PLD and WAR are by far more consistent in what they do. Their utility and CC carry harder in more situations which is why they are the better pick most of the time. IF they made GNB able to choose stances as they please, while keeping what they have now, at most they might actually be on the same level as PLD and WAR are right now. Your damage wouldn't change, other than the availability to swap to DPS stance more frequently, the heal stance would still be very situational and a 10k heal doesn't do much against a 16k Flare, 20k Drill, 22k Wyrmwind Thrust. At most, it would just make GNB more CONSISTENT, which is it's main issue at the moment.

[TimotheusReed]

The healing boost is so minimal, I am curious what you have ever seen as "overpowered", because in over 1k games on GNB, I don't agree. The ONLY instances where the healer stance is good to have in in heavy melee comps, usually on Lava Map, or in Overtime. Situations where you can hit the most people with the AoE healing that is the main reason why you would go into healer stance in the first place. And even then, your damage and personal sustain are gutted, hence why it is balanced.

Not to mention GNB is far from being the best tank at the moment. PLD and WAR are by far more consistent in what they do. Their utility and CC carry harder in more situations which is why they are the better pick most of the time. IF they made GNB able to choose stances as they please, while keeping what they have now, at most they might actually be on the same level as PLD and WAR are right now. Your damage wouldn't change, other than the availability to swap to DPS stance more frequently, the heal stance would still be very situational and a 10k heal doesn't do much against a 16k Flare, 20k Drill, 22k Wyrmwind Thrust. At most, it would just make GNB more CONSISTENT, which is it's main issue at the moment.

Ixon. Don't bother. I have seen your GNB suggestions since the beginning of Crystalline Conflict. I always respected your opinion about GNB and I can testify that you know what you are talking about. I learned to play GNB well but it still took a lot of time and I still propably perform similar to someone who just picked up one of the OP classes. And I still feel like I need to put more effort and time into playing GNB than anyone else.

I am pretty much one of the only GNB who is queuing in my data centre. I don't think Gserpent knows what he is talking about. And I am not really sure if he might just be trolling us.
Now after the No Mercy change i can finally hold my ground somewhat. And most of my playstyle is just "running away, attack, running away, attack" while all other tanks can stay on the crystal endlessly sometimes, because they are more durable than me.

Also as someone who plays on controller targetting especially "allies" isn't that easy. The only change i really want for GNB to feel "perfect" would be CC immunity on my LB. Then I got everything I need.

[Ixon]

Ixon. Don't bother. I have seen your GNB suggestions since the beginning of Crystalline Conflict. I always respected your opinion about GNB and I can testify that you know what you are talking about. I learned to play GNB well but it still took a lot of time and I still propably perform similar to someone who just picked up one of the OP classes. And I still feel like I need to put more effort and time into playing GNB than anyone else.

I am pretty much one of the only GNB who is queuing in my data centre. I don't think Gserpent knows what he is talking about. And I am not really sure if he might just be trolling us.
Now after the No Mercy change i can finally hold my ground somewhat. And most of my playstyle is just "running away, attack, running away, attack" while all other tanks can stay on the crystal endlessly sometimes, because they are more durable than me.

Also as someone who plays on controller targetting especially "allies" isn't that easy. The only change i really want for GNB to feel "perfect" would be CC immunity on my LB. Then I got everything I need.

Thanks. I still think GNB is fine, it just lacks consistency. Cover is almost always good, same with TBN, same with a stun. The issue is while something like Nebula in Tank stance is good, it's only good when you are getting attacked. Healing stance is good, but only if your team can benefit from it. DPS stance is good, but only if you are being ignored. And a 30sec cooldown that is dependent on enemy(or potentially ally) team comps strips that flexibility away. Not to mention current DnJ gives a Powder Barrel for a Burst Strike, which is a damage increase if it replaces any part of your 1-2-3 combo. So you are either forced to use it on cooldown for the DPS, but lose out on what little flexibility you have. Or hold it to be flexible if able, but lose out on free damage. Hence why I would rather they just do away with it entirely and do something similar to the RDM black/white shift as I mentioned.

The other issue with them simply allowing to target self and allies is at minimum it would only allows you to go tank stance whenever you want. The other two stances would still be enemy and ally comp dependent, so you would still lose out on total flexibility just because you didn't get a Healer or DPS(in the rare occasion) in your match. I don't know if SE is willing to go that far to make GNB functional, or if they will just keep applying band aids to current DnJ.