Tank Rotations: Which do you like/like best and WHY?

[Renathras]

Question in the title. People often complain about what they don't like, but that isn't as useful feedback, I don't think, as saying what we DO like and WHY we like it, which can inform future designs. Though...I'll probably mention a few things I dislike.

I'll start:

I have PLD, WAR (just recently), and GNB at 90, DRK at 30 (just messed with it a little, so can't speak to it as much)

Of the three, I've decided I like WAR best.

WAR's entire rotation is MORE OR LESS set up by level 50 (Storm's Eye), so you no matter what content you sync to, you generally can do the same basic thing across all levels. While some may dislike this, I like my CORE rotation being the same across levels since I can use my level 90 muscle memory anywhere. I love how the additional complexity it gets as you level comes from upgrading abilities or giving them special interactions (like Infuriate + Fell Cleave) rather than bloating my hotbars with tons of buttons I still have to have a spot for but only press rarely. This keeps the Job feeling fresh as you level, while not making it difficult to navigate on a controller/with fewer hotkeys, but also giving the Job a SMIDGE of nuance with said interactions.

The rotation is simple, but intuitive, leaves ample room to weave oGCDs as needed, and Fell Cleave spam is...oddly gratifying. WAR's reputation as "the other/blue healer" is also well-deserved, and while probably a BIT too powerful, lets WAR feel competent in all content in the game, even if it has the lowest (statistically tied with PLD) damage cap, it also has the least variant between lowest and highest, meaning the Job is easy to learn and get relatively competent with. It's probably the single best choice for people new to tanking to get into the role. The base rotation including self-healing means even before getting Raw Intuition, WAR feels smooth and safe to play, which also makes it feel good in prog and while leveling alike.

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GNB I somewhat like because the rotation is rigid enough it doesn't require a lot of thinking and can be done reliably throughout a fight without really "getting lost", but it is kind of painful to maneuver the boss or use oGCD mitigations during Gnashing and the burst window, and I kind of dislike how the 90 sec Bloodfest CD doesn't line up with anything (I'd rather it be 60 OR 120 sec, honestly). Double Down is an oddly fun button to just hit and watch the animation of, though, and GNB's overall burst phase (Double Down into the DoT into Gnashing, finish the third hit of your base combo, finish with Blasting) feels really tight and good to pull off.

Overall, the rotation is smooth, has a generally nice flow to it, and is fun to roll through, and the burst feels satisfying, but it can feel a bit inflexible at times.

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PLD was my tank of choice in SB, but the loss of the three combos (DoT, Threat, and direct damage) has somewhat changed the Job. Requiescat makes it more flexible by giving it more ranged potential than the other tanks, as does the Sword combo at the end. It also has a TON of utility.

But part of my DISlike of the Job is how much this changes the Job if you sync to do literally anything, even something at level 89. The Swords replacing the first Goring combo of your melee cycle leads to some weird muscle memory issue when doing synced content and having to swap to leading into melee with Goring instead of Royal as you do at 90. The Job also loses the caster phase entirely if you do anything below level 68, which is roughly half the content in the game. It also loses a LOT of its self-sustain, especially below level 58 and Clemency.

The Job is fun if you can really lean into its party buffs/utility, but it feels kind of disjointed leveling/syncing, similar to BLM. Though it is fun being able to go full Ranged physical-lite for 7-8 GCDs and unleash Ultimate Bladeworks on your enemies and use Guard to keep the last healer alive long enough for the to Raise/LB in critical situations. Overall, I feel PLD has a lot of buttons to do basically the same thing even WITH the Caster phase being just pressing the same button over and over. It is definitely the most button bloated of all the tanks I've played, and Atonement just feels...I dunno, kinda there. It doesn't feel good like Gnashing/Continuation does to me, though I can't quite place my finger on WHY.

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So I like WAR best (smooth, simple, intuitive, flexible), GNB somewhat (smooth/tight, satisfying, but less flexible), PLD's okay but probably the least (weird syncing, very flexible, but also a lot of hotbar buttons and CDs to work through that somehow doesn't feel tight like GNB's), and...presently have no position on DRK yet. (I'll level it eventually, but I'm not much of an edgy-boy )

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So, what about you guys?

Which do you like best (can be more than one)? What do you like about them? And sure, what do you dislike about them?

[Shurrikhan]

PLD >> GNB >>>> DRK > WAR, for me.

Oddly, though, 4.1 WAR and 3.x DRK were my favorite, rotationally. /shrug

As for why...

PLD just feels that bit more nuance-capable and flexible than GNB, less like it's just a matter of "hit all the things!!!" roughly per minute (thank god for Bloodfest at least being desynced, at a 90s CD), while WAR and DRK have similarly... nothing much going on, though at least DRK has a more significant oGCD presence.

Aesthetically, I actually like them all equally. But that only forms a small part of my attraction to any given job.

[Icecylee]

Probably GNB > WAR > PLD > DRK for me.

I like the higher number of GCD buttons GNB has, and the way the powder charges work. It leaves a little room for optimizing, but it's not super hard to pull off. Garnishing Fang being up every 30 seconds and needing to occasionally spend burst strike's out of the burst phase means you never feel like you're locked into the filler combo for too long, which goes a long way from keeping it boring. The 90s bloodfest also keeps the job interesting, since it not lining up with no mercy means your rotation isn't exactly the same each minute, and even the downtime winds up a little more varied since you don't want to overcap powder charges.

I didn't play WAR very much in the 2.x/3.x era, so its relatively straight forward rotation doesn't bother me as much as it might others. Mostly though, I think it's an interesting approach towards making a job that really wants to hit one button as much as possible, and has more interplay within the job kits itself to reinforce that, which isn't something very many of the other simple jobs in 14 do well.

PLD is something I kind of like from a distance. I also think it's pretty funny how it went from the most braindead job in the entire game at launch to being way more finicky and involved that any other tank (and healers, and probably some of the ranged jobs if we're being honest). The levels and type of jank involved with the higher ends of optimization don't personally appeal to me though, even if it's interesting on paper or to see other people doing it.

DRK though... can't stand it. GCDs are almost as boring as what healers are dealing with, and the oGCDs don't make it much more involved or interesting since you mostly just fire them all off at once and then wait for a long time to do anything else again.

[Marxam]

WAR > DRK > PLD > GNB

WAR is probably the best designed tank in EW. It's got enough ogcds to keep you kind of busy but not too much where timing defensive cds will lead to gcd clips. It feels very smooth after the 6.1 change to IR.
DRK is too font loaded and leaves little to do in between 2 min bursts. It's one combo is monotonous and the only reason why its the highest dps tank is because all it's high dmg abilities are tied to 2 mins and are all ogcds, i.e. Shadowbringer, edge/flood, etc
PLD is too rigid. They removed PLD's third combo but replaced it with Atonement so it really never lost a third rotation and just condensed it into a one button spam (x3). Also has the highed button bloat of any tank job.
GNB is just jank imo. The gcds contradict each other and ogcds are a bit excessive, even compared to DRK.

[fulminating]

Warrior feels worse than in shadowbringers, the loss of any semblence of gauge management and IR stacks has really negatively impacted the feel. I like that pressing fell cleave makes infuriate come back sooner, but it would be nice if other aspects of the job had similar interactions. Having said that, both nascent chaos and fell cleave feel weighty in a way that bloodspiller doesn't.

I can see that palain is well designed even if it is not my cup of tea. Having its ranged combo would be an incredibly useful thing if there was a prolonged period where being out of melee range is essential. I think the confetior combo would feel better if it temporarily transformed the goring blade combo and requiscat became confetior, but I imagine that people who like it how it is wouldn't necessarily agree.

DRK feels a bit half baked, I don't like living shadow at all. Except thematically. It's kind of dull when you're not in the burst part, but eh could be worse maybe. I don't really know what could be done to make it feel more engaging - more storable dark arts/dark arts being useful beyond a stored edge? Both salt and darkness and enhanced unmend are nothingy skills, it would be nice to see them and living shadow adjusted to be more cohesive. Perhaps adding an additional effect to S&D so it's not just hit the button when you've got a weave free.

Gunbreaker doesn't feel like much of anything, just buttons upon buttons. It's also hard to see where gunbreaker can actually go now that hypervelocity also exists. To me it just feels like the perfect union of all bad aspects of tanks and dps.

[RyuDragnier]

GNB is at the top for being really interactive and overall just being a frantic button mashing frenzy that feels like an actual DPS kit.

WAR for being relatively easy and braindead with some weight behind the swings.

PLD is lower end because it's just...overly complex to me.

DRK is the lowest because it's not fun, you spam the same combo over and over again, throw oGCDs out when they're ready, and try not to fall asleep.

The DRK one really hurts me, because we used to be such a frantic tank back in the HW days. Days I intensely miss because while it was DRK's debut, it felt like an actual job and had an identity of its own, along with being similar to how most jobs come out these days (they make sense, they feel fun, they flow rather well). But well, DRK isn't allowed to have nice things because PLD and WAR, so...

[Anienai]

The only rotation that makes the healer swoon!


Warrior!

[Renathras]

Honestly, I like this discussion/you guys' posts.

It's interesting seeing the different - and even conflicting - takes and different ways of viewing each tank, what different people find fun/positive/negative, etc. I especially like how it shows that some things that one person may dislike, someone else loves. Like some people love WAR for its simplicity and dislike PLD's complexity, while others hate WAR because it's too simple to them and salivate at playing a PLD and optimizing it. Some people love GNB for being tight and cohesive, while others think it's a total disjointed mess; even some person loving the 90 sec CD as they see it as changing up and preventing monotony vs someone else who might prefer it to better mesh with other timers.

It's just cool seeing all those replies together and the different viewpoints. Please keep it up!

[Rayne6665]

My own opinion:
•GNB- fan of gunblades, really love the play style of it. Not really too complicated
•PLD- love the OG sword and shield, another favorite , easy to use
•DRK- huge huge fan of greatswords! This reminds me alot of Gladiolus + Ardyn combined together xD I played from lv30-54, bought the level skip boost so i can get the feel of it off from a dummy and practicing it with Trust, but besides all the slow attacks (i wish we would get a faster attack animation and some skills like warrior with gs from GW2), i heard this is the most complex tank and hard to play but that really doesnt bother me. Dark Knight has become my all time fave tank even tho I’ll get use to the slowness and the mp thing

[Crater]

Despite any misgivings I have about the class or the direction of the game, I find DRK to be substantially more enjoyable to play than the other tanks.

DRK has a very hectic, APM-heavy burst - considerably more busy than even GNB - and executing that burst is fun and satisfying, especially in the fights where mechanically intensive things are happening at the same time, or when you also have to mitigate heavily during the burst. Complaints about DRK's gameplay rightfully focus on the lengthy periods of down time between bursts where you don't have much to do, but when DRK does get activated, it's one of the most fun classes to burst with, in any role.

The deep resource pools give the class a level of agency that other tanks lack. In situations where Striking Dummy logic doesn't apply, DRK's ability to spend MP, Blood, and Shadowbringer stacks early allows you to bring 2000+ potency to bear if you're behind on killing an add or meeting a phase-based enrage timer, and DRK's ability to hold those resources during a burst when they aren't necessary means that you can shift damage from a phase where you're ahead of a DPS check, to one where extra damage might be more useful. In the most extreme cases, this can be extended to using AoE combos in singletarget phases where you're way ahead, which gives you 150% resource generation that you can bring into the next phase. DRK's ability to move DPS from places where you don't need it to places where you do is an unparalleled progression tool in a fight like DSR.

DRK's skills are also exceptionally well-designed in the way they deal damage and interact with its burst. Warrior has been designed into a corner where its GCD-focused damage requires most of its big-ticket skills to be anti-synergistic auto-crit/auto-DH skills. Gunbreaker has Double Down, which is an easy way to understand why Warrior has to do that, because if you use Double Down for very long it becomes very apparent that it should be an auto-crit skill: Your performance varies widely based on whether that one particular skill happens to crit/DH, and it just becomes "the button you press to make yourself feel bad" when it doesn't. Living Shadow, on the other hand, is almost twice the potency of Double Down, yet your performance doesn't vary wildly due to RNG when using it, and you never feel bad about pressing the button: That's because its damage is divided into seven separate instances, so your Crit and DH rates tend to normalize across the skill. In a similar vein, Shadowbringer is a 600 potency skill with two charges on 60s cooldown, not a 1200 potency skill on a 120s cooldown: It doesn't feel bad to miss a crit, because it's divided into smaller chunks, and your RNG will tend to normalize across it. Same applies to Salted Earth; it's an 800 potency skill which would border on being an auto-crit problem, but it's divided into a 500 potency SaD, and six 50-potency DoT ticks.
In addition to that, Living Shadow and Salted Earth are both smartly designed in relation to DRK's extremely busy burst window: Living Shadow has a 6-second activation time, so you can use it early, when your oGCD windows are free, and similarly Salted Earth can be placed ahead of time, while the majority of the potency is dealt using a single button press in Salt and Darkness. In effect, you get (even) more skills during your burst window, without requiring any additional burden on your oGCD slots.

There's also the fact that DRK's burst actually has so much magnitude that you are effectively interchangeable with an actual DPS class in their burst during it. Similar to how WAR's burst worked in 3.x, this can actually become almost a form of party utility in and of itself, in certain situations. For example, DRK is a fully valid target for an extra melee card if your group has an AST, whereas with other tanks the AST is generally better off trying to reroll for a ranged card; this is, in effect, a layer of mitigation against bad AST RNG. And in some situations (depending on your party composition, specific times within a fight, whether some of your DPS have res sickness, etc), DRK can actually be a valid target for Dragon Sight or (temporarily) Dance Partner. While these situations are niche, none of the other tanks really open up these options the way that DRK does. If we still had fight design with things like the old A7S jails, putting DRK into the box would probably be a valid option just like putting WAR into the box was back in the day.

Lastly, I think that, while 6.x DRK is obviously based on 5.x DRK and the overall game is very similar to the simplified framework of 5.x gameplay, Endwalker restored a pretty big part of DRK's mechanical identity that's been missing since 4.0. The original Heavensward incarnation of the job had, as a pretty key part of its mechanical identity, a large, effective array of cooldown-based oGCD attacks that totaled up to a good chunk of its damage. In Stormblood, this aspect of the job identity was taken away and replaced with extra uses of Dark Arts, because Low Blow and Reprisal lost their potency, Dark Passenger was nerfed out of your singletarget rotation, etc. In Shadowbringers, this loss of identity was taken further, as Salted Earth was nerfed to almost a fourth of what it used to be and DRK was plagued with a bunch of oGCDs that barely felt like they tickled and really felt almost pointless because their potency was too low (eg. 5.x Abyssal Drain, Salted Earth). Endwalker restored this aspect of the identity, because Salted Earth has now been effectively tripled in strength, Shadowbringer is a new high-potency attack, and even Carve and Spit now feels properly chunky with Abyssal Drain's potency rolled up into it. I obviously don't like it as much as Heavensward, but in a certain sense, 6.x DRK feels a lot more like a "real" FFXIV DRK than it did in either Stormblood or Shadowbringers.


The class obviously still has its problems, and the game in general has even bigger problems with its current direction, but relative to the rest of modern-day FFXIV, I think that 6.x DRK is a fun and well-designed tank with an above-average level of flexibility and player agency compared to most other classes in the game (not even just tanks).

Edit: As an honorable mention, I'll say that I also find 6.x GNB to be a huge improvement on 5.x GNB, despite the criticisms I listed above of Double Down, and I agree with Shurrikhan that a lot of that comes down to Bloodfest being on a 90s cooldown that puts it offset to the rest of the rotation. The resulting mix of fast resource generation, a shallow resource pool strict resource requirements during burst windows, and the offset nature of Bloodfest's cooldown gives you the opportunity to think ahead about your resource generation in a way that is kind of reminiscent of the way you had to think ahead with your resource and combo use back in the 3.x/4.x days.