Contradictions, Double Standards, Counterintuitive Design

[Silver-Strider]

That's pretty insane and indicative of an exceptional team pushing the limits of what's possible.

They also said they were at it for 10 days (?!) and had to get the RNG of the mechanics to line up JUST right for it to even be possible. Everyone, of course, ignores all that and now believes DSU can be solo healed by anyone and everyone. Because...of course they do.

Similar arguments were used when TEA was solo healed as well. "Oh it was an AST so its fine" SCH and WHM then clear it as well and radio silence after that.
"RNG needs to line up just right for it to be possible" Well RNG lined up and these people cleared it so what's the actual argument being made? If RNG favors it, what's exactly stopping other people from following suit other than player skill? These are ULTIMATE fights, something that should require above average players to clear it in the first place so what's to stop equally skilled SCH/WHM/SGE from clearing it if they can get the RNG to do so? If RNG is literally the only factor that determines whether a 2nd healer is needed or not, there's a problem.

No, I'm looking at kits, interactions, and how they work in a mechanical sense.

I've already submitted for the sake of argument that CONTENT is too easy. I've said for months now we have too many oGCDs, they're too powerful, and fights are too scripted.

That doesn't mean the Job (since all healers are this way) is badly designed. It means the content is not being well designed.

This seems contradictory because I fail to see how too many powerful oGCD is NOT a job design problem. Making the content actually warrant the oversaturated amount of oGCDs healers get wouldn't resolve the issue because everything that came before that content would be unaffected and leave those areas of the game woefully underdeveloped, doing nothing to make healers more engaging in that content and even less motivated to run it. Removing/Nerfing oGCDs shows that there IS a problem with job design being overtuned.

If you don't need to use WHM's "supposed" complexity for current content, then what's the problem of adding to that complexity? You yourself said you don't need to use that complexity, so why can't we have more DPS buttons? You don't need to use it, right? You're killing your own arguments here.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

Even I can state non-sense logic easily by bending some facts.

Here the following :

Most of healing actions are unecessary to clear content
Emotes are unecessary to clear content
Most of healing action are emotes.

Sad, but almost true.

[Hezhi]

Don’t forget the double standard of when Ultimate was coming out they stated they didn’t want to make any drastic changes to healers in case players couldn’t handle it. Meanwhile directly after that they talk about drastic changes to dps jobs they’re making before Ultimate but trust in the players to be able to adapt quick enough before Ultimate released…. Guess SE just sees healer mains as ignorant and horrible at adapting lul.

The only thing we had to learn and adapt to is coping for the loss of kaiten, all they gave SAM was a mindless and thorough gutting
Still not as gutted as u guys tho

[NobleWinter]

How do you play WHM well and not see a problem? If you are sitting there pressing Glare over and over and completely ignore most of the abilities you leveled up for hours to obtain how you can you think the job is designed well? I like learning abilities as I level to add depth to my class. The amount of skills healing has me interacting with is just sad in regular duties. I'm still mad that the two lions in Aglaia do a single unavoidable raid wide attack. It's at the very beginning of the fight and no other damage besides avoidable orange circles happens for the rest of the battle. That means you can literally DPS the entire time. You don't need to heal anything. That's level 90 content designed to be farmed over and over so people are going to stop standing in aoes and eventually healers do nothing but DPS and yet still can't have a proper DPS kit. It's absolute madness to think my once absolute favorite role has been reduced to that.

[SaberMaxwell]

1,668 pulls. 160 hours. About a month and a half worth of days we've gone so far. We've seen 2.2% enrage and are hoping to kill dsr tonight. We're not the absolute best group out there of course, but we're probably about average.

So ten days is super impressive. It's a ridiculously impressively small amount of time to get all needed healing and mitigation lined up and accomplished including rng possibly oneshotting group members. And as I've stated in another thread the rng's real difficulty doesn't come from rng causing damage, it comes from healer role targeted mechanics which are artificial ways of trying to enforce multiple healers.

What this group did is even more impressive considering they bypassed those artificial restrictions and won anyway, but that also means that without those roadblocks solo healing dsr would be a more accessible feat.

[ThorneDynasty]

Jesus christ no one is going to be convinced by spamming walls of misinformed BS ad nauseam. I am honestly amazed anyone still bothers to even skim through with enough attention to respond.

People have objectively disproven your nonsense claims about the healer role a hundred times now, including by posting logs of your own runs. At this point you are like a flat earther complaining everyone calling you out is evidence of an "echo chamber".

[fulminating]

Warrior is a more engaging healer that white mage, that I grant.

[ASkellington]

I just wanna know why we have mechanically interesting classes like BLM and RDM who have a specific playstyle for people and they don't change despite people wanting them to be something they aren't, yet classes like SB SCH/AST/BRD changed in ways the original fanbase disliked.

They had audiences and people who like that playstyle. Why in the world would you change them into something they dislike instead of taking the foundation you had and giving QoL fixes?

[Nizzi]

I just wanna know why we have mechanically interesting classes like BLM and RDM who have a specific playstyle for people and they don't change despite people wanting them to be something they aren't, yet classes like SB SCH/AST/BRD changed in ways the original fanbase disliked.

They had audiences and people who like that playstyle. Why in the world would you change them into something they dislike instead of taking the foundation you had and giving QoL fixes?

The developers play those jobs. Comparatively, they don't play SCH/AST/BRD, etc, so it's not really seen as an issue to them when they take away the playstyle.

[FoxCh40s]

In fairness, that kind of depends on the content.

Dungeons? Absolutely, in 2.0 I actually used to make double WHM parties for the fastest WP grind before we figured out the whole locking mobs out of the boss area with the barrier thing.

Savage and Trials? Not so much, not because we didn't have opportunities to DPS, high tier healers would generally be maintaining dots where possible, but because resources were much scarcer than they are now, and that includes GCDs themselves. Tanks could potentially get wiped out in the span of a couple of GCDs with bad crit luck, MP evaporated if you started spamming much of anything and falling behind was risky because we just didn't have the same kind of ability to catch back up like we do now.

You used to see a lot of standing around canceling casts and hard MP conservation in harder content.

Man, that was back when I legitimately used Ethers to even out my MP too in addition to Shroud. You simply just did not have the MP to GCD heal AND Dps constantly as a White Mage, unless Mages Ballad was up. Standing and doing nothing WAS a strategic choice to regain Mp.

Both hate and miss those days.