Hrothgar Feedback Thread

[Akimori]

Valens van Varro was exceptionally graphic and had gruesome sound effects, to boot. I utterly adore Hrothgar, but this argument is grasping a bit and ultimately detracts from the overall criticism of the race.

No lie. I just watched it. A "pop" and "liquid" dripping doesn't really sound gruesome to me, but you are right that it ultimately detracts from the overall criticism

[Midareyukki]

I remember all hrothgar deaths and the one about the hound doesn't ring a bell. When did that one happen o-o?

We also had 1 "female hroth" death off screen, magnus's wife who people are theorizing to be storg. But you are right about the deaths. We get plenty of them in XIV, but I dont think any of them have been nearly as gruesome as Hrothgar's (Ahewan's death aside....and tesleen). If another race is killed, either they're killed quickly in an almost painless fashion or its implied, off screen that they were killed

NGL, I dont exactly remember the death about the hrothgar being eaten alive by a hound. Was that in

Zadnor. One of the FATEs starts with Hrothgar being eaten alive by a Cerberus-type mob. As in, just before the FATE actually starts, you see an animated scene where a three-headed hound chomps on some Hrothgars. And that's when the FATE then starts.
Same as another FATE where they're turned into Archaeodemons from FF Tactics by the Puppetmaster.
The only time violence against people in Bozja isn't overtly directed at Hrothgar or the Blades is the prisoner bit before fighting Adrammelech in Castrum Lacus Litore.
And again, that's to say nothing of Delubrum's deal with the Blades nor the Dabog Fates.

Yes, I remember Valens van Varro... being so cartoonishly evil and a clear hate-sink I questioned why Square was escalating on the gratuitous violence. But in Zadnor, particularly after Delubrum, they started displaying it so graphically for no reason. A couple children was already in bad taste, and it only served to make people wish Valens a death as quick as possible.

But the whole of Bozja is like this, just on and on. And while Valens does have an ending, Bozja is made clear that things aren't over, and all the ones involved apart from Gilbrisbert get away with it scot-free.

Edit: I might be wrong on the creature. I may be saying it's Cerberus-looking creature but that might be false. I'll hop onto Zadnor and Bozja to try and see if it spawns. I know it exists though. It even has a sound effect when they get munched. If so, I'll correct myself.

No lie. I just watched it. A "pop" and "liquid" dripping doesn't really sound gruesome to me, but you are right that it ultimately detracts from the overall criticism

It doesn't just because you don't remember those FATEs.

Intensity is the problem here. And the fact that it's done so repetitively and so gruesomely is an escalation in intensity.

Because sure! We've had gratuitous violence before, with people being stabbed and all the deal with Tesleen and whatnot. But it wasn't so concurrent and ever-present. Nor was it constantly targetted. Because otherwise I wouldn't have a problem. But all the victims SHOWN to us are Hrothgar. And that's what I'm referring to.

"Oh but it's Bozja and it's a warzone, it's natural Hrothgar would be shown".

We've had content with stuff like this before, it wasn't ever displayed this graphically. At least not of a playable race. And Bozja isn't home only to Hrothgar. We have Roegadyn and Highlander NPCs. Yet none of them meet such an animated fate on-screen. Hrothgars do.

[Rokke]

But you are right about the deaths. We get plenty of them in XIV, but I dont think any of them have been nearly as gruesome as Hrothgar's (Ahewan's death aside....and tesleen). If another race is killed, either they're killed quickly in an almost painless fashion or its implied, off screen that they were killed.

imo Gaius' white haired Au ra son holds the most graphic torture to bad end pipeline of any npc.

That aside I hope the devs do get around to fixing up hroths. My alt has the foxy lady ears so he's not earless, but the fact that thats even A Thing I have to do is absolutely wild.

[Akimori]

Zadnor. One of the FATEs starts with Hrothgar being eaten alive by a Cerberus-type mob. As in, just before the FATE actually starts, you see an animated scene where a three-headed hound chomps on some Hrothgars. And that's when the FATE then starts.

Maybe I missed that starting part. I've done all the fates minus the critical engagements. Do you remember the name of it perchance?

That question aside; I was disappointed in how Bozja was handled over all. Despite it being a mix of races, I would say a large # of casualties were of the hrothgar. The queen's guard in DR? One of them was a hrothgar [Mladen the Vanished and Adis the Spirited]. Trinity seeker and Trinity avowed? 4/6 individuals used to make the 2 trinities were the hrothgar [Stanik Alubov and Xeven Svanasch to make Trinity avowed and Blaz Azetina with Velibor Azetina to make the trinity seeker]. Then the countless deaths of the NPC hrothgars falling to lyon and his goons. Then the blades that couldn't be saved despite having a cure close at hand [I dont remember if DR released with the patch a cure for tempering was found or before]. I also agree on the lore bit. Its saddening that almost no lore exists and probably the most important piece of lore was retconned into a non-hrothgar was absolutely disappointing. All we get of the queen are vague drawings of female hroths

I really hated how essentially Bozja overall was retconned into "Everyone is classist and/or racist" and could essentially be choked up to as "We're fighting because we want to the right to oppress our own people". A real chance for them to actually expand the lore and its of course..one of the most cliché things ever

[Midareyukki]

Maybe I missed that starting part. I've done all the fates minus the critical engagements. Do you remember the name of it perchance?

That question aside; I was disappointed in how Bozja was handled over all. Despite it being a mix of races, I would say a large # of casualties were of the hrothgar.

Yeah, I REALLY don't. I'm dead certain it exists, and that it starts with a group of Hrothgar intercepting one of the enemies, they summon this creature that promptly devours him and then a FATE starts. But given how I don't know the name, have a vague idea it's in Zadnor (my personal grievance with the way Hrothgar were being depicted escalated in Zadnor, which I why I kept insisting it was there), am finding it hard to spawn it to see it happen again and screenshot it, and even my friends don't recall the scene I'm describing, I have to concede that either it doesn't exist or is so obscure it's minimal.

I've done all the FATEs and every Critical Engagement in Bozja and Zadnor multiple times as well. I've only never done the duels. But I cannot rely on memory alone. I REALLY don't like talking out of my arse, especially not without proper evidence to back it up. Even if I say I'm certain it exists, if I personally cannot find it, then I can't treat it as factual. And that is not only gravely incorrect, it's also unfair to Square Enix. In light of that, I'll edit out the comment about Bozjan NPCs.
I'm sorry, everyone.

As for what you said after, that's what I'm referring to. I understand perfectly well that Hrothgar make up a large portion of the population of Bozja, so it's to be expected that there would be a lot of violence aimed at them. Yet we've had race-dominated areas with some suffering, and it wasn't so targetted. Nor did we have general, widespread cruelty be so constantly spammed to the point of looking gratuitous. Vanaspati? Understandable, all hell was breaking loose, and it wasn't localized to one race. But Bozja did feel like it. And it really does feel, with the main story of Bozja in toe, that Hrothgar were targetted in that cruelty.

But as Chie_M said, I'm sorry if I'm making it sound like more of a big a deal than it might be. It's just that personally, and given my conversations with friends who play Hrothgar, the constant violence displayed in Bozja and the Gunbreaker quests is really dark for someone who plays the race. (Radovan on a shock collar, anyone?). So I assumed it would be a worthy note.

[Akimori]

snip

Well, as someone that is REALLY into lore of the races, I found it to be a worthy note. So far, Lore for hrothgars tells us what to expect from a hrothgar name if they serve a queen (A- vs -sch), their history is essentially shrouded in Betrayal, slavery (?), lots of murder, and then their recent lore of fighting for their homeland, why there are hrothgar with warmer colors to their fur vs colder colors (I loved the brief NPC interaction talking about the hroths huddling together for warmth in garlemald). Even the dragons (Hraesvalgr and Co.) has more lore and even had it expanded upon in EW than Hrothgar. Compared to other races (or literally anyone else), their lore is essentially table scraps.

More lore, pls SE. The game is story driven and lore drives a story. I could touch on the other subjects such as hats, our missing ears for new hairs, etc etc, but that horse has essentially been beaten to death. Although, I will say, with hrothgar's missing ears, theres no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to wear hats now. JS

[Midareyukki]

Well, as someone that is REALLY into lore of the races, I found it to be a worthy note. So far, Lore for hrothgars tells us what to expect from a hrothgar name if they serve a queen (A- vs -sch), their history is essentially shrouded in Betrayal, slavery (?), lots of murder, and then their recent lore of fighting for their homeland, why there are hrothgar with warmer colors to their fur vs colder colors (I loved the brief NPC interaction talking about the hroths huddling together for warmth in garlemald). Even the dragons (Hraesvalgr and Co.) has more lore and even had it expanded upon in EW than Hrothgar. Compared to other races (or literally anyone else), their lore is essentially table scraps.

More lore, pls SE. The game is story driven and lore drives a story. I could touch on the other subjects such as hats, our missing ears for new hairs, etc etc, but that horse has essentially been beaten to death. Although, I will say, with hrothgar's missing ears, theres no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to wear hats now. JS

Namazu got more lore than we did... and all they were was a string of quests, not a whole dedicated area to explore their lore and backstory.

And the issue is honestly worse than you may think:
- The Hrothgar lore initially presented to us about the Lost and the Helions, especially when it came to naming conventions, is actually a Sharlayan misconception. For a country so devoted to preserving knowledge as Sharlayan, this is grossly unacceptable. No one scientist documenting historical aspects of one's culture like this accept random trivia without backing it up. At least, I certainly wouldn't.
- This is just a theory, but Misija having a Hrothgar name is confusing given we see Bozjan Roegadyn with lore-accurate name. Either this was a fluke, or Misija was meant to be a female Hrothgar. If so, then it makes the above statement about Sharlayan look even worse.
There just seems to be no regard for established lore nowadays. Sure, the game did tweak its own lore from time to time... but it never directly handwaved it. Even if people think we did get lore, the game itself tells us "No, it's fine, just ignore it, it's probably wrong anyway"

Edit: Akimori, I think I know which FATE it is. It's "An End to Atrocities". It's a Skirmish with cerberus-type monsters called Wepwawet. It should have a little sequence with NPCs before it actually starts. Some FATEs in Zadnor do that. I'll post an update later with image evidence once I get to spawn it myself. Not to shove it into SE's face, just to a) show everyone I'm not crazy XD I'm not hallucinating it!! I swear! and b) also to at least show you which one I'm referring to.

[Gullis]

Namazu got more lore than we did... and all they were was a string of quests, not a whole dedicated area to explore their lore and backstory.

And the issue is honestly worse than you may think:
- The Hrothgar lore initially presented to us about the Lost and the Helions, especially when it came to naming conventions, is actually a Sharlayan misconception. For a country so devoted to preserving knowledge as Sharlayan, this is grossly unacceptable. No one scientist documenting historical aspects of one's culture like this accept random trivia without backing it up. At least, I certainly wouldn't.
- This is just a theory, but Misija having a Hrothgar name is confusing given we see Bozjan Roegadyn with lore-accurate name. Either this was a fluke, or Misija was meant to be a female Hrothgar. If so, then it makes the above statement about Sharlayan look even worse.
There just seems to be no regard for established lore nowadays. Sure, the game did tweak its own lore from time to time... but it never directly handwaved it. Even if people think we did get lore, the game itself tells us "No, it's fine, just ignore it, it's probably wrong anyway"

Edit: Akimori, I think I know which FATE it is. It's "An End to Atrocities". It's a Skirmish with cerberus-type monsters called Wepwawet. It should have a little sequence with NPCs before it actually starts. Some FATEs in Zadnor do that. I'll post an update later with image evidence once I get to spawn it myself. Not to shove it into SE's face, just to a) show everyone I'm not crazy XD I'm not hallucinating it!! I swear! and b) also to at least show you which one I'm referring to.

There is also a bozja fate called The Baying of the Hound(s) that involves a Cerberus. that is not in zandor tho, but it fits the description

[GrimGale]

While I am not particularly upset about the lack of hairstyles (Not to say our limited options isn't upsetting, considering the amount of unlockable customization options that are out of reach for hrothgar players), what bothers me most is the lack of headgear available.

Iconic job head pieces would be the bare minimum. Relic gear would be the bare minium and yet Hrothgar cannot wear red mage hats, black mage hats or mortarbards.

[Midareyukki]

To Akimori (and others):

This is the Skirmish I was referring to. I spawned it and recorded it myself after 1h in Zadnor. It's "An End to Atrocities", and though it's not the only Skirmish to feature a little animated dialogue like that, it is the one I'm referring to. You have others, such as the one due East of it, where Gilbrisbert turns people into Archaeodaemons.

I got a detail wrong though. One of the eaten is a Hyur. Honourary Hrothgar :P

Regardless, you guys take this information, as well as the existence of the animation dialogue in the Gilbrisbert Skirmish, however you see fit. I won't go back and add the note that Hrothgar get "gratuitous violence aimed at them" even with this. Especially since not everyone agrees it should be featured.

It's really just so you guys at least now know what I'm talking about.