Hrothgar Feedback Thread

[Adamantini]

I'm here to offer my support. Of all the races, hrothgar is by far the most limited.

What's funnier is that Yosh P himself says (if I remember well) that Hrothgar was always a race he wanted to put in the game, as he wanted a more bestial race. I think that desire was not that great. The race is poorly chosen among players, but is it just because it is unpopular? I know many friends who became hrothgar at launch, but after months, years of neglect, they simply reverted back to another race.

[Minali]

I considered adding my own take but you summarized everything really well and writing my own stuff down would just be the same in different words. The worst part for me is that it is treated as a little side pet project, when Hrothgar issues are issues of the main character in the game. And it should have the same priority as any other issue regarding the main character, just like it would be the case if it would be about a Miqo'te, Hyur or Aura. It's not the Hrothgar player's fault that Hrothgar as a player race were "late to the party". Please don't treat us like it would be.

So instead I'd like to add a link to the "Hrothgar Hair request: MEGATHREAD"
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...est-MEGATHREAD

There are so many suggestions of existing and new hairstyles for Hrothgar in this thread. Dear devs, if even after reading this wonderful elaborated thread still leaves you with the question what specifically we would like to see, click the link and read this thread with great care, too. It's not a very long one but if this doesn't give you a good idea, I don't know what would.

One thing I'd like to add because unless I missed it, this was not addressed: I am a woman who'd love to play a Hrothgal, I already would've loved to play one back in FFX. Although I don't speak for all possible Hrothgal players, as a member of the intended target group, I beg you, the devs, to fix the issues of male Hrothgars first. If you create female Hrothgars the same as male Hrothgars, with individual sets of ears glued to specific faces and hairstyles that make them look like peanut heads (see the 2B one), you will end up with two extremely incomplete character models you have to fix instead of one, giving the art team twice as much work as necessary. (And an incredibly disappointed fanbase on top of that.) Hrothgars as a player character race will not be able to get fixed, let alone their options in variaty in facial features and hairstyles expanded, until you tackle the core issues. So please, repair Hrothgars. Repair what is the main character and therefore most important person in the game for many.

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

At this point I'd really like a portion of a live letter to discuss the issues with hrothgar desing in length without hiding behind the excuse of 'it's hard'. I don't understand how any of these issues can be a surprise when other races have and continue to get new customisation. The locking of facial features behind your initial choice of hair is actually kind of perplexing even after the tecnical stuff has been explained.

When I heard that some of the staff had made a small number of hats visible, I thought that in it self would be a sign that they need more work going forward. And that they would slowly increase it to all hats. I hope they would at least work to have every artifact armour set complete. Now it's just bad desing that viera and hrothgar don't have hats.

[Bunnycake]

Have a bump from a bunny. Also, the thing that baffles me on the hair that crops out the ears is why the Hrothgar and not miqo'tes like this hair. The ears are way in the heck up there lol

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Still just waiting for Female Hrothgar.
Im of the mindset that they might be a package deal. You introduce the females with better design, that means you can go back and make fixes and Corrections in the past.
Not that I can guarantee that.

Im sure the Devs and company have gotten the picture that things are not good for the Hrothgar and they need to do better.
I wanna blame many other factors for the solution not being here yet....dev time on XVI, production of Future Patch Content, including stuff for the next expansion, and also the development of Female Hrothgar, and even dev time on Glamours for both Viera and Hrothgar. Oh yeah, and the fact they spent last expansion making the male Viera. Lets also not forget they are finally working on Updating the Game Engine!
Just time and resources are split really thin, so some things get more attention then others, and some others are probly shoved down on the Priority list, but are being worked on. Just Slowly

And Im not spewing any garbage and nonsense about how the Devs are my friend, and everything is fine BS.
Im just trying to think about it rationally as if I was apart of the dev team, and not push ignorant ideas like "Its a Billion Dollar Company" because that doesn't mean anything nor does it prove any point. Or self insert invisible rhetoric like "They Hate hrothgar" when...they are on record saying they WANTED to make Hrothgar, or something like it.
Yes I agree, we've waited a long time....honestly Im patient, and its not like there isn't others things to do in the meantime. Or other things that can use attention.

Ive not given up on the future of Hrothgar nor have I lost trust they can fix things and turn it around.
Not yet at least. My 1st step, is Female Hrothgar...bring in both Genders.
Then...idk what kind of time I can personally give them to address and fix everything else...but I like to think...and HOPE, that they get things figured out with the addition of FemHroths and the Game Engine Upgrades

[Midareyukki]

Have a bump from a bunny. Also, the thing that baffles me on the hair that crops out the ears is why the Hrothgar and not miqo'tes like this hair. The ears are way in the heck up there lol

This is because Miqo'te ears aren't attached to their head model. Thus you can move them around to fit the hairstyles you want. Hrothgar can't do that because the ears are a part of the head itself.

And Im not spewing any garbage and nonsense about how the Devs are my friend, and everything is fine BS.
Im just trying to think about it rationally as if I was apart of the dev team, and not push ignorant ideas like "Its a Billion Dollar Company" because that doesn't mean anything nor does it prove any point. Or self insert invisible rhetoric like "They Hate hrothgar" when...they are on record saying they WANTED to make Hrothgar, or something like it.

Except this isn't hollow rethoric. Please read the posts.

I prefaced it by pointing out constraints, be it technological or inherent to the development itself. You listed all those "factors for the solution not being here", yet not only did I mention them, I also mentioned how neither of them excuses the way this race has been treated.

Yes, we did know the devs wanted a bestial race. Yet not only do their actions past telling us there was a desire not match said desire in the slightest, we'd also be entirely acting on hearsay.
They might not hate hrothgar, and that wasn't the implication. But Hrothgars have been treated with dismissal. Excuses such as "Oh the ears are too hard" when they are not and third party tools have gotten around it. Work which has been publicly streamed. 2B Peanut Head, when we know most other hairstyles in the game are adjusted to fit their races, or were in the past.
But at this point I'm repeating what I've already written.

"ignorant ideas like "Its a Billion Dollar Company" because that doesn't mean anything nor does it prove any point"
Except... it is, and it does. Because a dingy old company wouldn't have the resources Square Enix has to make the quality they've made in other games. This is, by current standards, a low-end PS3 game. They are a company known for being avant-garde in the 3D department. Always have been, and that's even been such a facet they wanted to show, it ended up being part of why 1.0 failed. It's not an ignorant idea. And Hrothgar aren't the only ones with such issues; look no further than Viera foreheads.

What is ignorant and factually irrational is dismissing such factors so readily.

This is rational, because it's clear the dev team has either been making decisions without being properly informed, making content in a rushed fashion, or both. Merely understanding "players aren't satisfied" isn't enough if you have no idea what your next step should be.

[Denji]

I think what bothers me most is that when Hrothgar were introduced I was under the mistaken impression that only older content equipment wouldn't work properly/at all on hrothgar... and that newer content would be designed around their ears/hair/heads in mind. Instead we just are given the hand-me-downs of Roes and the occasional very ugly healer tiara or what I like to call "tank jockstrap" aka those weird, metal frames that go around the sides of one's face.

Even more annoying is how a lot of hats that would work perfectly fine but just... don't work. The behemoth helm for example doesn't work. Why? ... No reason. It just doesn't. Because screw you.

[Bunnycake]

I think what bothers me most is that when Hrothgar were introduced I was under the mistaken impression that only older content equipment wouldn't work properly/at all on hrothgar... and that newer content would be designed around their ears/hair/heads in mind. Instead we just are given the hand-me-downs of Roes and the occasional very ugly healer tiara or what I like to call "tank jockstrap" aka those weird, metal frames that go around the sides of one's face.

Even more annoying is how a lot of hats that would work perfectly fine but just... don't work. The behemoth helm for example doesn't work. Why? ... No reason. It just doesn't. Because screw you.

Elemental fending helm works on Hrothgar but not on Vieras ;'(

[Vahlnir]

Elemental fending helm works on Hrothgar but not on Vieras ;'(

"Works" might be a bit of a stretch. Sure, it can be used and seen as an appearance, but all they did was slap a hyur head model onto a larger body, making that helmet and most other helmets look silly by being ridiculously small. Viera got the better end of that deal, I think. lol When I did play Hrothgar, I avoided helmets for that reason.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

This is because Miqo'te ears aren't attached to their head model. Thus you can move them around to fit the hairstyles you want. Hrothgar can't do that because the ears are a part of the head itself.



Except this isn't hollow rethoric. Please read the posts.

I prefaced it by pointing out constraints, be it technological or inherent to the development itself. You listed all those "factors for the solution not being here", yet not only did I mention them, I also mentioned how neither of them excuses the way this race has been treated.

Yes, we did know the devs wanted a bestial race. Yet not only do their actions past telling us there was a desire not match said desire in the slightest, we'd also be entirely acting on hearsay.
They might not hate hrothgar, and that wasn't the implication. But Hrothgars have been treated with dismissal. Excuses such as "Oh the ears are too hard" when they are not and third party tools have gotten around it. Work which has been publicly streamed. 2B Peanut Head, when we know most other hairstyles in the game are adjusted to fit their races, or were in the past.
But at this point I'm repeating what I've already written.

"ignorant ideas like "Its a Billion Dollar Company" because that doesn't mean anything nor does it prove any point"
Except... it is, and it does. Because a dingy old company wouldn't have the resources Square Enix has to make the quality they've made in other games. This is, by current standards, a low-end PS3 game. They are a company known for being avant-garde in the 3D department. Always have been, and that's even been such a facet they wanted to show, it ended up being part of why 1.0 failed. It's not an ignorant idea. And Hrothgar aren't the only ones with such issues; look no further than Viera foreheads.

What is ignorant and factually irrational is dismissing such factors so readily.

This is rational, because it's clear the dev team has either been making decisions without being properly informed, making content in a rushed fashion, or both. Merely understanding "players aren't satisfied" isn't enough if you have no idea what your next step should be.

I didnt say Hollow...I said Invisible. Because its made up and non-existent to say the Devs dont care about Hrothgar. You can't prove that, you made it up.
If this were true, Hrothgar wouldnt exist in the 1st place, nor would we be getting the Females...they wouldnt even acknowledge it if this were true. There is more to take care of in the game, so its not a wild idea to consider these things are being worked on, just slowly. And I gave room to the idea that things can still be fixed, and maybe we can see improvements when the Females are Produced, because unlike the Male Hrothgar, dev time was split between making them alongside the Viera. And as seen with the Male Viera, having more dev time to focus on ONE race/Gender can lead to better results. So I still put stock in the idea that the males should see fixes and improvements along the females.

I argue that its not a good excuse. None of us work for the company, and even if you have the vaguest idea about how another company works, doesnt mean all companies work the same. Also have you considered how many of those resources are already being used? Upkeep on expenses, other games and other projects? To just sit here and say Oh they are a Million Dollar company so they can just fling money willy nilly...is pretty ignorant.
And we dont know if they have no idea what the next step should be...we arnt there...we arnt devs. We arnt managing possibly a million different things. A Modder having enough free time to alter code in a game thats isolated and only effects what is on their screen, is not the same as working on the actual coding of the game that would effect the whole system.